Should Clemency be nerfed?

[Jkap_Goat]

why take the flavor of PLD, what makes it a PLD? PLD is known for its healing

[Morningstar1337]

@OP: no. it's a heavy resource investment and a DPS loss, so the tank generally has a good reason for doing it (and also allows for the occasional clutch if the healers bite it or help cover for a death)

that it can create boredom for healers is a systemic issue that it's merely a symptom of, and removing it won't address the core problem (and will only make everyone feel worse).

Pretty much, yes. There is much hullabaloo about the jobs feeling homogenization and loss of flavor (mostly centered on healers). And removing self sustain options would likely make it worse for little benefit other than maybe thinking that the healers would be slightly more occupied.

[Sisohiv]

I don't see how it's any more powerful than WAR's sustain/self healing or GNB? I've ran dungeons with WARs and GNBs where I swear their health wasn't moving or if it did it went back to full health almost instantly and it wasn't cause of me.

I also like that when I play PLD I can heal myself when the healer is uh...way below "average" which happens a lot.

And the learning curve for White Mage is splat you are dead, do it again. So having a Tank that can stop party wipes every time a White Mage hasn't brainwashed themselves in youtube before entering a dungeon is a QoL skill.

[Krotoan]

In high end content, I feel Clemency is fine and doesn't need adjustments.

In 90% of the game's content however, I feel one skill is overwhelmingly powerful compare to the others - and that is Clemency.

In solo play the skill is powerful it can carry Paladin's through fights that they wouldn't be able to clear otherwise.

In PUGs, the powerful skill can be a very troublesome player trap causing some players to depend on the skill when it rarely is, if not at all necessary with active healers.

I feel balancing skills around solo / casual play is something that should generally be avoided, but I feel Clemency is so strong in those situations that it should warrant an exception.

What do you all think?

Why would you want to make a class less fun to play?

Take a class that has a great feel to it and take that.. AWAY from the players?

nope. No vote here.

[Rasikko]

Im sure the PLD death count will skyrocket with a nerfed clemency. That skill is the best weapon against those green DPS that just wait too long before healing.

[Vyrerus]

I don't see how it's any more powerful than WAR's sustain/self healing or GNB? I've ran dungeons with WARs and GNBs where I swear their health wasn't moving or if it did it went back to full health almost instantly and it wasn't cause of me.

I also like that when I play PLD I can heal myself when the healer is uh...way below "average" which happens a lot.

It is far more powerful than either of their self sustain tools. WAR's requires a party member to be within Nascent Flash range, and lasts for 2 GCDs. GNB's is a 60 sec CD weak regen and then Brutal Shell. Clemency is a 1200 potency heal that has been fully scaled up. When used under Requiescat, its potency increases by 50% to 1800 potency heal. It is the strongest heal in the game, and it is multitarget as well, healing the target for the 1800 potency cure and the PLD after the fact for half of the healed amount. Like all heals it is subject to crit as well, for even more healing.

That said, I don't want it nerfed, but I don't understand why PLD was allowed to keep such a powerful heal when WAR and DRK lost their most potent ones, that were still no match for it outside of trash packs.

[Esmoire]

The irony is PLD arguably has the worst self-sustain of all the tanks. It is true Clemency is the Duty Finder Freshmaker, able to pull together even worst of parties.

However, it's hard to fathom how many parties are carried by WAR's huge self-healing, or TBN's huge 25% absorption + Abyssal Drain's massive sustain on pulls. I think all the tanks carry parties to some degree, though the difference is PLD is the only one that has to disrupt their DPS to do so, and block doesn't quite make up for that.

WAR's requires a party member to be within Nascent Flash range, and lasts for 2 GCDs.

This is false information. Nascent Flash applies to 3 GCDs. Keep in mind, it only has to be active for the start of the attack to snapshot its effect.



All in all the healing is excellent when doing trash pulls, within IR, or when using Inner Chaos. It's not Clemency, but it's enough that if the healer is the first to die I can get people through any dungeon boss and some of the trials or raids as long as people don't mess up too much.

[Shougun]

It's silly strong and I love it. Greedily I'd love to see some mechanic that lets go oGCD on a rare / slow rotation or gives us reason to use it without hurting healer's feelings (maybe after X oath spent = 1 free oGCD clemency). Perhaps more unique is by using it once in your magic rotation causes your next Y attack to have improved effect (maybe a new interaction with a shield attack, clemency and judgement- once per magic cycle it'll add one judgement bolt). Which is some holy shield cannon you have to load up before you ion Zeus Yamato cannon blast out of your shield, a skill that is worth but had to be charged over multiple rotations through clemency.

[Vyrerus]

The irony is PLD arguably has the worst self-sustain of all the tanks. It is true Clemency is the Duty Finder Freshmaker, able to pull together even worst of parties.

However, it's hard to fathom how many parties are carried by WAR's huge self-healing, or TBN's huge 25% absorption + Abyssal Drain's massive sustain on pulls. I think all the tanks carry parties to some degree, though the difference is PLD is the only one that has to disrupt their DPS to do so, and block doesn't quite make up for that.This is false information. Nascent Flash applies to 3 GCDs. Keep in mind, it only has to be active for the start of the attack to snapshot its effect.



All in all the healing is excellent when doing trash pulls, within IR, or when using Inner Chaos. It's not Clemency, but it's enough that if the healer is the first to die I can get people through any dungeon boss and some of the trials or raids as long as people don't mess up too much.

Oh noes, I was off by a GCD! The horror! It's still nothing on Clemency. It has a cooldown, the requirement of a living body not your own, your ability to deal damage, and cannot be used on more than one person, per use. Clemency can be spammed, and the spam can be sustained by forgoing DPS, and doing Fast > Riot over and over again, resulting in a Clemency every 5 GCDs. Compare 1200 potency heal every 5th against 250/300 potency heal every 3. That is also not factoring in natural MP regen, nor the ability to use Super Ethers for more. PLD has the best self-sustain in the game.

[Nestama]

Oh noes, I was off by a GCD! The horror! It's still nothing on Clemency. It has a cooldown, the requirement of a living body not your own, your ability to deal damage, and cannot be used on more than one person, per use. Clemency can be spammed, and the spam can be sustained by forgoing DPS, and doing Fast > Riot over and over again, resulting in a Clemency every 5 GCDs. Compare 1200 potency heal every 5th against 250/300 potency heal every 3. That is also not factoring in natural MP regen, nor the ability to use Super Ethers for more. PLD has the best self-sustain in the game.

Though it comes at the cost of being a good tank, if used outside of specific instances: healer is dead but can be raised, and/or DPS is so bad on a big pull the healer is now out of resources and is actually struggling to keep you alive. Any other point just annoys healers because it makes them think you don't trust them at all (imo. I know when big damage is coming, so settle down on the panic Clemency) and potentially has them sitting on resources they could use, but don't want to waste them when the tanks HP isn't even below 70%.