Should Clemency be nerfed?

[MichiPichi]

I don't see how it's any more powerful than WAR's sustain/self healing or GNB? I've ran dungeons with WARs and GNBs where I swear their health wasn't moving or if it did it went back to full health almost instantly and it wasn't cause of me.

I also like that when I play PLD I can heal myself when the healer is uh...way below "average" which happens a lot.

[Sisohiv]

I don't see how it's any more powerful than WAR's sustain/self healing or GNB? I've ran dungeons with WARs and GNBs where I swear their health wasn't moving or if it did it went back to full health almost instantly and it wasn't cause of me.

I also like that when I play PLD I can heal myself when the healer is uh...way below "average" which happens a lot.

And the learning curve for White Mage is splat you are dead, do it again. So having a Tank that can stop party wipes every time a White Mage hasn't brainwashed themselves in youtube before entering a dungeon is a QoL skill.

[MichiPichi]

And the learning curve for White Mage is splat you are dead, do it again. So having a Tank that can stop party wipes every time a White Mage hasn't brainwashed themselves in youtube before entering a dungeon is a QoL skill.

I main whm, haven't touched youtube to really learn anything. The class is brain dead and I practice "stress" pulls in potd/hoh (I know it's not the same but it's the closes I could get) to learn. I also just talk to raiders in game to learn as well.

[Vyrerus]

I don't see how it's any more powerful than WAR's sustain/self healing or GNB? I've ran dungeons with WARs and GNBs where I swear their health wasn't moving or if it did it went back to full health almost instantly and it wasn't cause of me.

I also like that when I play PLD I can heal myself when the healer is uh...way below "average" which happens a lot.

It is far more powerful than either of their self sustain tools. WAR's requires a party member to be within Nascent Flash range, and lasts for 2 GCDs. GNB's is a 60 sec CD weak regen and then Brutal Shell. Clemency is a 1200 potency heal that has been fully scaled up. When used under Requiescat, its potency increases by 50% to 1800 potency heal. It is the strongest heal in the game, and it is multitarget as well, healing the target for the 1800 potency cure and the PLD after the fact for half of the healed amount. Like all heals it is subject to crit as well, for even more healing.

That said, I don't want it nerfed, but I don't understand why PLD was allowed to keep such a powerful heal when WAR and DRK lost their most potent ones, that were still no match for it outside of trash packs.

[Esmoire]

The irony is PLD arguably has the worst self-sustain of all the tanks. It is true Clemency is the Duty Finder Freshmaker, able to pull together even worst of parties.

However, it's hard to fathom how many parties are carried by WAR's huge self-healing, or TBN's huge 25% absorption + Abyssal Drain's massive sustain on pulls. I think all the tanks carry parties to some degree, though the difference is PLD is the only one that has to disrupt their DPS to do so, and block doesn't quite make up for that.

WAR's requires a party member to be within Nascent Flash range, and lasts for 2 GCDs.

This is false information. Nascent Flash applies to 3 GCDs. Keep in mind, it only has to be active for the start of the attack to snapshot its effect.



All in all the healing is excellent when doing trash pulls, within IR, or when using Inner Chaos. It's not Clemency, but it's enough that if the healer is the first to die I can get people through any dungeon boss and some of the trials or raids as long as people don't mess up too much.

[Vyrerus]

The irony is PLD arguably has the worst self-sustain of all the tanks. It is true Clemency is the Duty Finder Freshmaker, able to pull together even worst of parties.

However, it's hard to fathom how many parties are carried by WAR's huge self-healing, or TBN's huge 25% absorption + Abyssal Drain's massive sustain on pulls. I think all the tanks carry parties to some degree, though the difference is PLD is the only one that has to disrupt their DPS to do so, and block doesn't quite make up for that.This is false information. Nascent Flash applies to 3 GCDs. Keep in mind, it only has to be active for the start of the attack to snapshot its effect.



All in all the healing is excellent when doing trash pulls, within IR, or when using Inner Chaos. It's not Clemency, but it's enough that if the healer is the first to die I can get people through any dungeon boss and some of the trials or raids as long as people don't mess up too much.

Oh noes, I was off by a GCD! The horror! It's still nothing on Clemency. It has a cooldown, the requirement of a living body not your own, your ability to deal damage, and cannot be used on more than one person, per use. Clemency can be spammed, and the spam can be sustained by forgoing DPS, and doing Fast > Riot over and over again, resulting in a Clemency every 5 GCDs. Compare 1200 potency heal every 5th against 250/300 potency heal every 3. That is also not factoring in natural MP regen, nor the ability to use Super Ethers for more. PLD has the best self-sustain in the game.

[Nestama]

Oh noes, I was off by a GCD! The horror! It's still nothing on Clemency. It has a cooldown, the requirement of a living body not your own, your ability to deal damage, and cannot be used on more than one person, per use. Clemency can be spammed, and the spam can be sustained by forgoing DPS, and doing Fast > Riot over and over again, resulting in a Clemency every 5 GCDs. Compare 1200 potency heal every 5th against 250/300 potency heal every 3. That is also not factoring in natural MP regen, nor the ability to use Super Ethers for more. PLD has the best self-sustain in the game.

Though it comes at the cost of being a good tank, if used outside of specific instances: healer is dead but can be raised, and/or DPS is so bad on a big pull the healer is now out of resources and is actually struggling to keep you alive. Any other point just annoys healers because it makes them think you don't trust them at all (imo. I know when big damage is coming, so settle down on the panic Clemency) and potentially has them sitting on resources they could use, but don't want to waste them when the tanks HP isn't even below 70%.

[Esmoire]

Oh noes, I was off by a GCD! The horror! It's still nothing on Clemency. It has a cooldown, the requirement of a living body not your own, your ability to deal damage, and cannot be used on more than one person, per use. Clemency can be spammed, and the spam can be sustained by forgoing DPS, and doing Fast > Riot over and over again, resulting in a Clemency every 5 GCDs. Compare 1200 potency heal every 5th against 250/300 potency heal every 3. That is also not factoring in natural MP regen, nor the ability to use Super Ethers for more. PLD has the best self-sustain in the game.

Your attempt to minimize it with snark and sarcasm really doesn't work here, and is still remarkably underinformed; that's literally a 50% difference in healing, give or take based on what the WAR does.

One is an action designed specifically for healing, the other augments what you are already doing to provide healing to the party. WAR is producing gross levels of healing across a fight and is very likely to prevent a problem from happening. In realistic scenarios, when people are actually doing DPS, you'll get a lot more sustain from the job who can heal while still participating.

PLD has access to a lot of healing on demand. The burst healing they can do in a given moment indeed cannot be compared to anything the other tanks can do, and it can salvage a disastrous party, but let's not aggrandize its meaning by isolating it into a favourable context. It's disingenuous.

[Liam_Harper]

Clemency is one ability they got right and I wish we had more of, along with actual damage intake to warrant using it. Tank self-sufficiency is almost non-existent in this game. I'd rather they didn't take yet another step in ripping away class identity from tanks and making them even more into blue dps. Just look at how neutered or clunky things like Abyssal Drain or Nascent Flash are, because they can't let tanks be self-sufficient.

I don't feel bad players spamming the skill should mean deleting it for everyone else who uses it well in clutch moments. We've already wrecked healers dps toolkit and tank dps rotations because of those bad players, how far do we go trying to make a game that's impossible to suck at?
I also don't feel solo play should be balanced around. It would be great if we could go back and dig into some HW primals or Savage bosses with even more classes.

[Ultimatecalibur]

Just look at how neutered or clunky things like Abyssal Drain or Nascent Flash are, because they can't let tanks be self-sufficient.

I'll give you Abyssal Drain being clunky, but Nascent Flash is overpowered and should be nerfed if any tank healing ability needs to be nerfed.