On the topic of Gremlims and Sin Eaters....

[Morningstar1337]

Okay I was wondering about the Sin Eaters. as they seem to vary between three demeanors.

1. Silent but deadly aether vampires
2. Trolls and jerks
3. ...and elitist egotists

The thing is 2 and 3 only apply to specific types of Sin Eaters, Gremlins and Valthrey respectably and the latter is kinda of a special case. This assumes, however that the Gremlins are indeed sin eaters. An assumption people, myself included had been running with since they appeared in the Shadowbringers trailer.


But they are some qualities besides being capable of (nasty) speech that sets them apart form Sin Eaters and makes me question their assumption:

1. Their presence in the Source and in the Overworld in the First. FFR Sin Eaters usually appear only in Dungeons and quests with one special exception, and that's an S rank mark. Gremlins OTOH are found in both Lakeland and the Twelveswood, a location that has not been affected by the Flood of Light at the time, as well as Gubaland Antitower, hinting at a population in the Hinterlands as well. And I think they are found elsewhere in the Source as well.
   • Counterpoint: One of those locations as Amdapor, which did seem to have contact with Sin Eaters as they seem to be the basis of the Kuribu (F. Hypocrisy) and Winged Lion (F. Cruelty) statue bosses, however the former also seems to be based on an eponymous entity that can be summoned in POTD. But the Lion still lends credence to the possibility of Sin Eaters being on the Source at the era of the WotM and by extension that Gremlins are sin eaters.
2. Their demeanor. Reminder, most of the sin eaters are silent energy vampires. And there are hints that they seem to be in some state of feralness or mindlessness as even the most humanoid of them short of Innocence himself, did not speak or show any sense of sapience acting only on instinct and the memories of their former selves. Gremlins by contrasts are not only clearly sentient, but are also more off-theme compared to the more angelic Sin Eaters showing a captivity to act more like bullies or jerks, even channeling this into the Misery debuff. Something that seems out of place considering the Sin Eaters tend to prefer killing their prey quickly
3. The lack of cases of metamorphosis. I might had missed something but I do know that victims of Sin Eaters become eaters themselves, hence the vampyric comparison, yet I never came across any cases of gremlin victims becoming sin eaters, gremlins or otherwise, which seems strange for what is supposing a species in a type of entity that is capable of forcing metamorphosis like that.

I know the point is likely been raised before, and will likely be raised again in the near future, but I still have to ask, what is the deal with Gremlins?

[Joven]

I think the gremlin minion's text says something about them being voidsent that are resilient and cunning enough to survive in the world of light. Don't hold me to that, I know I've heard something like that from somewhere.

[Mimilu]

I think the gremlin minion's text says something about them being voidsent that are resilient and cunning enough to survive in the world of light. Don't hold me to that, I know I've heard something like that from somewhere.

At first, I thought that was just a joke about the movie Gremlins (the minion description even talks about them also being resilient against water and that you shouldn't feed them after midnight).
But maybe the Flood of Light was like the voidsent equivalent of an ice age? The gremlins being more common and needing less aether then a bigger/stronger voidsent but being more resilient/stronger then more common voidsent like Imps just led to them surviving.

Another theory could be that stronger voidsent de-evolved with the over saturation of light-aether into gremlins.

[Joven]

At first, I thought that was just a joke about the movie Gremlins (the minion description even talks about them also being resilient against water and that you shouldn't feed them after midnight).
But maybe the Flood of Light was like the voidsent equivalent of an ice age? The gremlins being more common and needing less aether then a bigger/stronger voidsent but being more resilient/stronger then more common voidsent like Imps just led to them surviving.

Another theory could be that stronger voidsent de-evolved with the over saturation of light-aether into gremlins.

That would open up a whole new can of worms for the First once darkness returns and all the larger voidsent just start popping up back into full form seemingly out of nowhere.

[Wyssahtyn]

Gremlins were just brought over by the Crystal Tower. That's it.

[Enkidoh]

Gremlins were just brought over by the Crystal Tower. That's it.

^This. A sidequest in Lakeland states that the gremlins only appeared after the Crystal Tower materialized there a century before, in fact people saw gremlins actually coming out of the Tower, so the gremlins were basically vermin that hitched a ride with it to the First, and are not native to that world.

So gremlins have absolutely nothing to do with sineaters, but given their penchant for causing mischief they seem to attack whenever sineaters attack too (like the attack on Holminster), deciding to make use of the chaos that accompanies sineater attacks as an excuse to make even more chaos and grief.

[Morningstar1337]

^This. A sidequest in Lakeland states that the gremlins only appeared after the Crystal Tower materialized there a century before, in fact people saw gremlins actually coming out of the Tower, so the gremlins were basically vermin that hitched a ride with it to the First, and are not native to that world.

So gremlins have absolutely nothing to do with sineaters, but given their penchant for causing mischief they seem to attack whenever sineaters attack too (like the attack on Holminster), deciding to make use of the chaos that accompanies sineater attacks as an excuse to make even more chaos and grief.

Okay so they are clearly voidsent AND an invasive species to boot. guess that clear things up a bit.

Wonder if their cameo in the trailer was meant to misdirect folk then?