Does Square intend to address Market botting?

[Kes13a]

Because its impossible to sell anything, how can you compete with a botter?

there are some in this thread, that advocate that you should not try and compete with the, find a market that the bots arent in and sell there. which is basically surrendering the market to the bots so that the cheaters can get ahead. perhaps giving up has worked for them. maybe they can happily work up their crafters to level 80 and then just have them all geared up and essentially wasted once having done so because the cheaters and rmt bots have taken over the markets for the top 30 levels of gear, harvested materials etc.

it IS possible to compete and sell, but you are essentially standing on the market board to respond to price changes. and you'll be changing prices a lot, generally about every 5-10 minutes depending on how many bots you are up against and their intervals. dont delude yourself into thinking that your sales are hurting them in any way. they have items in every piece of gear, so they lose one sale its not a huge deal, they arent playing anyway.

but its about the only way I have found to sell anything against them. so, currently your choices are doing that, or giving up and letting the market bots win like someone else here has.

[LystAP]

I feel like the bots have been really aggressive as of recently in nearly all item categories. Perhaps their RMT masters are anticipating people wanting to buy gil at the last minute before 5.35 for housing.

I have been aggressively competing with them. As I work at home, it's easy for me to log in every hour or so to change prices. It's gotten to the point I think everything is crashing down.

[TheLoveJenovan]

I feel like the bots have been really aggressive as of recently in nearly all item categories. Perhaps their RMT masters are anticipating people wanting to buy gil at the last minute before 5.35 for housing.

I have been aggressively competing with them. As I work at home, it's easy for me to log in every hour or so to change prices. It's gotten to the point I think everything is crashing down.

Thanks LystAP,
I hope you're right. SE should have addressed these bot rings a long time ago, as some of them have been in operation for more than 2.5 years. If they cool down after 5.35, that would be great though.

[LystAP]

Thanks LystAP,
I hope you're right. SE should have addressed these bot rings a long time ago, as some of them have been in operation for more than 2.5 years. If they cool down after 5.35, that would be great though.

I also think they're operating on multiple servers - I see consistency in their markets, since I've bought some of their goods to sell on my alt servers - however, I mostly focus on Balmung, I don't have the time nor energy to keep on jumping servers - this market warfare is fun sometimes, but I like to vary my activities (like doing instances/pvp). I like to think I keep driving down their profit margins. This isn't just one person/machine. It feels like there's a strong correlation in operating procedures between all of them, at least on the Crystal Data Center, which indicates they may all be under one organized group. Even if you manage to take them all down on one server, as long as they have an account live on another, they can just transfer stuff from the survivors to a new account, and start over quickly. You can trade gil and items cross world/server if your on the same Data Center.

It was controlled on Balmung for awhile, but since it opened up they were able to make MB alts to expand their reach. There is most likely a RMT connection, which explains why they just keep on going - there's real world money involved. Even Blizzard gave up eventually and had their WoW Token. They'll keep trying as long as people keep buying their gil - which they will given the housing rush coming up. In the end, I'm just focused on driving them out of the market I want, even if it means minimum profit, although I confess it's starting to be less of that and more of defeating the enemy - no matter the cost.

[Jojoya]

Because its impossible to sell anything, how can you compete with a botter?

You don't compete against them on what they're selling. You sell what they aren't selling. There are thousands of items to craft and sell.

Pay attention to what's happening on the marketboard. There aren't so many bots on every world that they've covered every possible corner of the market to the point that no real players have a chance to sell anything at all. If you look, you will find opportunities to sell and profit.

[Auriya]

You don't compete against them on what they're selling. You sell what they aren't selling. There are thousands of items to craft and sell.

Pay attention to what's happening on the marketboard. There aren't so many bots on every world that they've covered every possible corner of the market to the point that no real players have a chance to sell anything at all. If you look, you will find opportunities to sell and profit.

I have followed this thread and other threads about botting for a long time almost from the beginning and I tried myself to fight the marketboard botters ingame as well AND it's just plain infuriating to see your responses about the problem and miscrediting players for delivering their experiences about marketboard botting. I don't know what your agenda is whether it comes from plain ignorance, or it's from protecting yourself, protecting friends or something else. But stop spreading FALSE information about that their isn't a marketboard botting problem cause it's there right in front of you. It's so massive that you can't even miss it!! And if your server is so blissfully unaffected then just plain acknowledge that other servers have a huge problem.

[TheLoveJenovan]

Thanks LystAP,

I also think they're operating on multiple servers - I see consistency in their markets, since I've bought some of their goods to sell on my alt servers - however, I mostly focus on Balmung.

They definitely do. When I was playing on Crystal (Zalera server), I was able to identify the FC bot rings on each of the Crystal datacenter servers. On Balmung, the FC is the Alpha Knights (https://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodes...9148295235275/), and they're currently ranked 6th for the server. There's also a datacenter bot on Balmung that crafts and sends items to retainers on all other servers--I won't name the bot because of forum rules on identifying individual users.

I agree that there are patterns. I surmise that the FC bots on every server are run by one RMT gil company, while the datacenter bots are run by a different RMT company.

They'll keep trying as long as people keep buying their gil - which they will given the housing rush coming up. In the end, I'm just focused on driving them out of the market I want, even if it means minimum profit, although I confess it's starting to be less of that and more of defeating the enemy - no matter the cost.

I did that for a couple of months while I was on Jenova (Aether), and I had some success. The FC bot would stop selling for a few days on some markets then come back. On Zalera, players have responded by selling most items below the FC bot's floor prices. This has crashed the market for a lot of items, and that bot has moved into selling most items to make money.

There are still some items which the bots won't touch, but these are for crafted items in which the market prices for mats are the same as the crafted items itself. To make a profit from these, you have to farm the mats yourself--ex: Nagxian Silk from maps.

[TheLoveJenovan]

I have followed this thread and other threads about botting for a long time almost from the beginning and I tried myself to fight the marketboard botters ingame as well AND it's just plain infuriating to see your responses about the problem and miscrediting players for delivering their experiences about marketboard botting. I don't know what your agenda is whether it comes from plain ignorance, or it's from protecting yourself, protecting friends or something else. But stop spreading FALSE information about that their isn't a marketboard botting problem cause it's there right in front of you. It's so massive that you can't even miss it!! And if your server is so blissfully unaffected then just plain acknowledge that other servers have a huge problem.

I agree, the motivation for these posts is dubious. Thanks for saying something.

I've been compiling a list of bot rings on NA/Europe datacenters, and I have 23 so far covering 127 accounts. I plan to send this to the STF team every Thursday, after we get the bot reports, to help them in their job, since they're a team of only 4 people.

If you'd like to share the bots you've found to add to the list, feel free to post them on our discord (https://discord.gg/XVCakA).

For example, the Odin FC MoonLight (https://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodes...0711086352600/) is currently ranked 4th on your server and looks suspiciously like a FC bot ring.

[Jojoya]

I have followed this thread and other threads about botting for a long time almost from the beginning and I tried myself to fight the marketboard botters ingame as well AND it's just plain infuriating to see your responses about the problem and miscrediting players for delivering their experiences about marketboard botting. I don't know what your agenda is whether it comes from plain ignorance, or it's from protecting yourself, protecting friends or something else. But stop spreading FALSE information about that their isn't a marketboard botting problem cause it's there right in front of you. It's so massive that you can't even miss it!! And if your server is so blissfully unaffected then just plain acknowledge that other servers have a huge problem.

Where did I say there's not a market bot problem?

Not once have I said there is no market bot problem.

Instead of accusing me of misrepresenting things or spreading false information, you need to stop misrepresenting what I'm saying.

What I have said is that despite the existence of the market bots, it is still possible for crafters to profit by selling items on the MB. That's 100% true. I do it daily. I do it with the items the bots are mainly ignoring. If the bots start selling what I'm selling, I go find something else.

I have said there are other factors depressing the market in addition to the bots. That is also 100% true. If you're going to be good at the marketboard game, you've got to know what's driving all of your competition and not just one part of it.

You can decide to play the victim and loudly proclaim how bots have ruined your game life, or you can take back control of your game life and enjoy it despite the bots.

I chose to do the latter. I'm not letting things outside of my control ruin the game for me. It might take a bit more effort but I'm still making gil on the MB. I'm still having fun.

Are you doing what you can to make sure you still have fun and enjoy the game? It's in your hands.

[TheLoveJenovan]

Where did I say there's not a market bot problem?

Not once have I said there is no market bot problem.

Instead of accusing me of misrepresenting things or spreading false information, you need to stop misrepresenting what I'm saying.

What I have said is that despite the existence of the market bots, it is still possible for crafters to profit by selling items on the MB. That's 100% true. I do it daily. I do it with the items the bots are mainly ignoring. If the bots start selling what I'm selling, I go find something else.

I have said there are other factors depressing the market in addition to the bots. That is also 100% true. If you're going to be good at the marketboard game, you've got to know what's driving all of your competition and not just one part of it.

You can decide to play the victim and loudly proclaim how bots have ruined your game life, or you can take back control of your game life and enjoy it despite the bots.

I chose to do the latter. I'm not letting things outside of my control ruin the game for me. It might take a bit more effort but I'm still making gil on the MB. I'm still having fun.

Are you doing what you can to make sure you still have fun and enjoy the game? It's in your hands.

Thanks Jojoya. I'm replying to your post even though I said that I wouldn't.

I think some people interpret your posts as having a defeatist attitude, and they're hoping to find a solution to the problem with this thread. You're right that some markets aren't tapped by bots, but these can be seized by bots pretty quickly. In my experience on Jenova and Zalera, bots will move into the markets of 60-80 or more items if their revenue streams aren't generating the gil they need. For me, this meant that I was making 1-3M gil a day to about 50-100k gil a day. I suppose we can be happy to be making that much, but if we're trying to save money for an FC large plot (40-45M), it'll take a long time--as a result of a problem that shouldn't exist in the first place.

I think we can all agree that the game would be better with more players and fewer bots. I'm not speaking for everyone, but I think many of us are just seeking solutions rather than obstacles in a thread like this. I also don't think it's pointless to discuss these solutions. If protests can overturn corrupt governments, surely a user base can effect change in a company that has been complacent to this point.