Does Square intend to address Market botting?

[Kes13a]

I find it almost impossible to believe that anyone would think cheating is "good for the game" in any sense.

maybe its just me but usually thats a red flag.

these people use 3rd party software, to automate processes so they can essentially... not play the game and gain real life monetary benefits if they are into RMT. how is this good in any way except for them?

[Jojoya]

I find it almost impossible to believe that anyone would think cheating is "good for the game" in any sense.

maybe its just me but usually thats a red flag.

these people use 3rd party software, to automate processes so they can essentially... not play the game and gain real life monetary benefits if they are into RMT. how is this good in any way except for them?

I don't think he's saying that cheating is good for the game. He's saying low marketboard prices are good for the game.

Most players aren't going to care why the prices are low. They're just going to take advantage of them.

You had talked last week about deliberately trying to crash prices to mess up the bots and I was seriously thinking about offering to help not because I thought it would do anything about the bots (I know it wouldn't) but because it would lower the prices to get the items into the hands of more players. I've got plenty of gil so very thin profit margins aren't a concern.

On the other hand, most of those stacks of cheap mats on the MB are probably bot source so it would just serve to help the bots after all. It's why I tend to stick to doing most of my own gathering and only buy the odd stacks I see listed on the MB when I'm too lazy to gather but the quantities needed for what you wanted to do would be prohibitive for just two, or even 20, players to get.

[Kes13a]

I don't think he's saying that cheating is good for the game. He's saying low marketboard prices are good for the game.

Most players aren't going to care why the prices are low. They're just going to take advantage of them.

You had talked last week about deliberately trying to crash prices to mess up the bots and I was seriously thinking about offering to help not because I thought it would do anything about the bots (I know it wouldn't) but because it would lower the prices to get the items into the hands of more players. I've got plenty of gil so very thin profit margins aren't a concern.

On the other hand, most of those stacks of cheap mats on the MB are probably bot source so it would just serve to help the bots after all. It's why I tend to stick to doing most of my own gathering and only buy the odd stacks I see listed on the MB when I'm too lazy to gather but the quantities needed for what you wanted to do would be prohibitive for just two, or even 20, players to get.

I am always open to help trying to give them as little gil as possible.

I do my own gathering as well, I mean the whole reason I got into crafting and gathering was more to avoid paying high prices, so if I do sell things, I prefer to keep them a reasonable price. So yes, if they were meaning to say low prices are good for the game, I am okay with that. what seemed to be implied was that the bots were keeping the prices low, and not actual players, which I disagree with (since I tend to be one of those crazies that drops a price by 10k+ and not a measly 1 gil)

the reality is though, as someone pointed out, since these operations cover all the worlds, being a small bump on a couple worlds will never change much. which is a sad but true bit of reality.

[ItMe]

as for competition returning... this is just for me anyway, if I leave the market... I dont check the market.

Perhaps you should reconsider.
I've made a fair amount of gil supplying product to relatively "abandoned" markets.

[snip]

That's cool and all but I asked for an example.
If you don't have one...
Either way, I noticed they're on a different cluster of servers than I, so I was more inquiring as to what the landscape looks like for them.

I don't think he's saying that cheating is good for the game. He's saying low marketboard prices are good for the game.

This is 100% what I'm trying to get at.
Thank you for saying it so clearly when I couldn't but fumble around the idea.

[Prrringles]

[QUOTE=Jojoya;5496010]I don't think he's saying that cheating is good for the game. He's saying low marketboard prices are good for the game.

Yeah good for who? Which party benefits here? Everyone 'cept for legit crafters. And let's be honest, most players have enough gil to buy any gear they want regardless of the price. Crafters are screwed in any scenario 'cept the one without bots.

[ItMe]

Yeah good for who? Which party benefits here? Everyone 'cept for legit crafters. And let's be honest, most players have enough gil to buy any gear they want regardless of the price. Crafters are screwed in any scenario 'cept the one without bots.

I feel like I answered that question here (p43):

So correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems like in FF14 a crashed market is:

-- Inconvenient to some (if they've over extended)

-- Annoying to others (people who already at least broke even and the lower prices are challenging further profits)

-- But it's beneficial to literally everyone else and helps keep the game healthy and keeps items/products freely circulating.

[Dragonkat]

One of these days someone needs to explain how market bots inflating prices to insane levels on one side, and cutting down to mat costs on the other to keep legit crafters out of the market are "good for the economy"

But keep on keeping on JJ with your bot apologist claptrap and if it doesn't effect me it's not a big deal nonsense.

Meanwhile in reality.

https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme..._the_high_end/

[ItMe]

One of these days someone needs to explain how market bots inflating prices to insane levels on one side, and cutting down to mat costs on the other to keep legit crafters out of the market are "good for the economy"

Please, let's.
That's entirely what my question was seeking to explore.

Meanwhile in reality.

https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme..._the_high_end/

That's chilling and sad and I hope SQEX sees this as their wakeup call, but my question wasn't about bots so I'm struggling to understand how this relates.
I know I'm being a little confusing as I am posting this tangent on a thread about bots. But I tried asking a general question about the markets.

[Jojoya]

Yeah good for who? Which party benefits here? Everyone 'cept for legit crafters. And let's be honest, most players have enough gil to buy any gear they want regardless of the price. Crafters are screwed in any scenario 'cept the one without bots.

There are far more players who are buyers than who are sellers.

You'd be very incorrect in assuming most players have plenty of gil to buy anything they want at any price. Most don't dozens of hours to play each week and the content they're doing in those few hours don't reward that much gil. The rich players like you and I who can afford anything we want (assuming it's available for purchase) are a small minority.

I'm a crafter. I still profit off what I craft to sell. As long as my costs are covered and I get a bit extra on top, I'm good. It all adds up quickly when you're not spending it.

When Kes talked about trying to flood the market to compete against the bots, I took a look at my local market board prices and saw I could make the majority of Exarchic gear for about 50k if I bought the mats off the MB or less if I gathered myself (I'm flooded with tomestone mats thanks to all the hunt trains I do). So I could be selling Exarchic for 50-60k and still turn a profit if I wanted. Wouldn't make sense to, of course - there are other items that sell for more and cost less to make. That's why I make those other items instead.

[ItMe]

So yes, if they were meaning to say low prices are good for the game, I am okay with that. what seemed to be implied was that the bots were keeping the prices low, and not actual players, which I disagree with (since I tend to be one of those crazies that drops a price by 10k+ and not a measly 1 gil)

I'm sorry, I thought I responded to this.
Yes. You've hit the nail on the head.
I feel that low prices are good for the health of the game.
I'm not sure where the implication about bots came up. I don't seem to have even mentioned bots in my posts before you brought them up.
Where did I imply bots were a force for good (or anything along those lines)?
Touching on the source of that misunderstanding might clear up a lot of the confusion in this conversation.