Does Square intend to address Market botting?

[dspguy]

The buyer tax was changed a long time ago so it's a flat 5% regardless of where you purchase. Seller tax is not going to affect listing order.

There's nothing in the patch notes to indicate that we're getting a new sort order option. All they're doing is changing the Total column to display total price including the 5% tax. It really is no more than buyer QoL so they know they're going to be paying 210,000 for that minion they want and not the 200,000 the seller is asking.

Might want to say fee to change cities instead of tax to make it clearer what you're suggesting. I'm not certain that will help what SE is trying to accomplish with the reduced tax rates.

While the gil sink has an importance to player economy, trying to get the retainer loads balanced at the city-state level seems to be more important to SE at the technical level. I think it will only change if SE is able to create that truly global marketboard system they've been trying to create once the planned infrastructure updates are done.

Derp. Yeah, it is the same across the board. I forgot which fees were for the seller vs the buyer. It'll have no effect then. Bummer.

[rxantos]

Given that the average seller would markup things several thousand times their cost. I would argue that if it were not for bots, and npc sellers, the game would have died a long time ago.

[Jojoya]

Given that the average seller would markup things several thousand times their cost. I would argue that if it were not for bots, and npc sellers, the game would have died a long time ago.

Doubtful. Player controlled markets haven't killed an MMO yet to my knowledge and there's an abundance of items that are obtained from quest rewards and dungeons for those who don't want to rely on crafted items.

The marketboard is for those who want convenience and human beings have been paying for convenience for a very long time.

[dspguy]

I agree with Jojoya on her points.

Let's say MB bots weren't a thing. We might see higher prices with less competition. Prices would probably go up. As prices go up, other players would jump in that market since it is worthwhile... driving the prices back down. Instead of having 2 bots constantly undercutting items produced by say... 10 crafters. We'd see 50 crafters making gear (returning to the market they stayed away from due to MB bots) all still undercutting each other.

Nothing would really change. The market might be healthier without bots. Bots remove most of the opportunity cost of the time investment. Maybe a player would make 90 stat pots for themselves for a raid and list half on the MB to offset their costs. A crafting bot might make 300 of each, use none and inundate the market. Since they press a button and walk away and come back in a few hours.

[TheLoveJenovan]

I only have a couple more days before my sub lapses, but I thought I'd put in one more post. I agree with Jojoya and Dspguy, and they make great points.

My experience has been that RMT increases marketboard prices. On Jenova, the only seller for many items are RMT accounts trying to sell items with significant markups. This is because legit crafters have given up on selling many or most items on the marketboard. RMTers undercut and resupply very quickly and create a "firewall" such that legit crafters can't sell their items, unless the pricing hits the RMT floor. Legit crafters then give up on selling on the marketboard for many or all items until a new patch comes out.

For example, take an Indigator Coat of Crafting (HQ), which has been available for a few months since the last patch. The cost, if you buy the mats, is about 180-200k. The RMTs sell these for 599-699k on my server. If you post one at, say 260k, the RMT accounts will undercut you within about 10 minutes. When the RMT account's item is sold first, they can often restock it and undercut you again within 10 minutes--or another RMT account has already filled in the spot. If you continue to drop your price by 5% every hour, the RMTers will keep up until the price reaches the cost of mats. I'm very patient, but it's a big hassle. I and most other crafters have given up, and so once my item sells at the floor price (180-200k), I just don't bother listing another. The price of the item then shoots back up to 599-699k, after all legit players have given up.

I also believe Square Enix relies on RMT companies for income. In scenario 1, SE employs a bunch of STF staff--more than 5 now, ostensibly--and ban a ton of paying RMT accounts, losing out on that income. In scenario 2, SE pays lip service and writes posts claiming to ban x thousands of RMT accounts or write posts about hiring a bunch of STF employees, then they do nothing more than banning the free accounts of gil barkers. Scenario 2 obviously makes them more money if it's enough to keep a significant number of legit players from quitting their subs.

Finally, this is an article from over 10 years ago on WOW, but it shows how problematic RMT can be from a human-rights perspective. I used to think that the RMT farmers were bots, but after studying those on Jenova for about a month, I've concluded that these accounts are played by a team of "employees." These employees are likely poorly compensated or not compensated at all.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...et-gaming-scam

[PlanNeun]

Really what an amazing logic you show.

RMT Bots rely on the Market Bots this is the same person. The market bots are not in it for charity, and they drive the prize up at first possible chance.

The market bots are in this for Dollars and Euro, not for anything else. When you manage to say it "might" be healthier well it would at least not be a part of organized crime.

[TeyaRodar]

I have been on Leviathan for 9 years and very active on the market board, but this past couple months is the first time where I've really noticed a market bot campaign so destructive that it's nearly impossible to sell anything.

Reading through the information in this thread, it seems that the issue on Leviathan right now is basically the same story; someone has 10 alts spread out between two service accounts and they are using these alts to make automatic undercuts on all crafted leveling gear and expensive furnishings. They cycle through alts 24 hours a day and they never interact with anyone or anything else. I've tried sending them tells, locking them into trades, and there's just no response.

For some reason though, it seems as if the main account crafting all the items has not been online for days, and yet the bots are still selling his items. I'm not sure if the main account was banned or what the deal is there, but it's peculiar.

Also, on June 18th, their bot program malfunctioned for most of the day so one of their alts was stuck staring at the summoning bell without switching over to other alts, so my sales skyrocketed.

For now though, it seems that no matter how many reports I make, no action is being taken and it's very frustrating. Has anyone ever actually had luck reporting this behaviour and having it stopped? I've already made a bunch of reports in-game and wrote one to the STF, so I don't really know what else to do. It seems from most responses here that the solution is, "live with it because SE won't do anything".

Edit - June 24th 2023: So it looks like SE took my reports seriously and banned the offender and all of his bots! I'm not sure why my reports against them prevailed when other people have made reports that failed, but perhaps it's the huge amount of evidence collected or the fact that the cheater was basically automating every aspect of the game and SE realised that no person could physically do what they were doing. Either way, Leviathan's market is flowing again!

[dspguy]

Good job, Teya (and hello from Leviathan). Earlier in this expansion, there were 2 "obvious bots." I stayed away from the market for most of this expansion. I don't know which one you reported, but I just checked the MB and the usual suspects aren't there. I remember when this started back in Stormblood and it more or less continued straight through Endwalker. So if Leviathan is rid of the 24/7 craft/MB bots for a while, that's a good thing.

[Prrringles]

One of the main bots on my server is also gone since a few days ago. I started reporting them like more than a year ago already. I'm sure this has nothing to do with recent reports. The RMT gang is probably just cycling out their "old" accounts for "new" ones.

[PlanNeun]

A new low going on, at least 4 Bots on High End.
1 on mid gear.

How it is on your servers I donno, but I bet it is pretty much the same.
I bet the number is higher since I don't check everything on the MB, as furniture etc

Grats Sqe no action from you and we got more Bots yeay.