Does Square intend to address Market botting?

[ItMe]

Yeah good for who? Which party benefits here? Everyone 'cept for legit crafters. And let's be honest, most players have enough gil to buy any gear they want regardless of the price. Crafters are screwed in any scenario 'cept the one without bots.

I feel like I answered that question here (p43):

So correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems like in FF14 a crashed market is:

-- Inconvenient to some (if they've over extended)

-- Annoying to others (people who already at least broke even and the lower prices are challenging further profits)

-- But it's beneficial to literally everyone else and helps keep the game healthy and keeps items/products freely circulating.

[Dragonkat]

One of these days someone needs to explain how market bots inflating prices to insane levels on one side, and cutting down to mat costs on the other to keep legit crafters out of the market are "good for the economy"

But keep on keeping on JJ with your bot apologist claptrap and if it doesn't effect me it's not a big deal nonsense.

Meanwhile in reality.

https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme..._the_high_end/

[ItMe]

One of these days someone needs to explain how market bots inflating prices to insane levels on one side, and cutting down to mat costs on the other to keep legit crafters out of the market are "good for the economy"

Please, let's.
That's entirely what my question was seeking to explore.

Meanwhile in reality.

https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme..._the_high_end/

That's chilling and sad and I hope SQEX sees this as their wakeup call, but my question wasn't about bots so I'm struggling to understand how this relates.
I know I'm being a little confusing as I am posting this tangent on a thread about bots. But I tried asking a general question about the markets.

[Jojoya]

Yeah good for who? Which party benefits here? Everyone 'cept for legit crafters. And let's be honest, most players have enough gil to buy any gear they want regardless of the price. Crafters are screwed in any scenario 'cept the one without bots.

There are far more players who are buyers than who are sellers.

You'd be very incorrect in assuming most players have plenty of gil to buy anything they want at any price. Most don't dozens of hours to play each week and the content they're doing in those few hours don't reward that much gil. The rich players like you and I who can afford anything we want (assuming it's available for purchase) are a small minority.

I'm a crafter. I still profit off what I craft to sell. As long as my costs are covered and I get a bit extra on top, I'm good. It all adds up quickly when you're not spending it.

When Kes talked about trying to flood the market to compete against the bots, I took a look at my local market board prices and saw I could make the majority of Exarchic gear for about 50k if I bought the mats off the MB or less if I gathered myself (I'm flooded with tomestone mats thanks to all the hunt trains I do). So I could be selling Exarchic for 50-60k and still turn a profit if I wanted. Wouldn't make sense to, of course - there are other items that sell for more and cost less to make. That's why I make those other items instead.

[Prrringles]

There are far more players who are buyers than who are sellers.

You'd be very incorrect in assuming most players have plenty of gil to buy anything they want at any price. Most don't dozens of hours to play each week and the content they're doing in those few hours don't reward that much gil. The rich players like you and I who can afford anything we want (assuming it's available for purchase) are a small minority.

I'm a crafter. I still profit off what I craft to sell. As long as my costs are covered and I get a bit extra on top, I'm good. It all adds up quickly when you're not spending it.

When Kes talked about trying to flood the market to compete against the bots, I took a look at my local market board prices and saw I could make the majority of Exarchic gear for about 50k if I bought the mats off the MB or less if I gathered myself (I'm flooded with tomestone mats thanks to all the hunt trains I do). So I could be selling Exarchic for 50-60k and still turn a profit if I wanted. Wouldn't make sense to, of course - there are other items that sell for more and cost less to make. That's why I make those other items instead.

Ofc there are more buyers than sellers. What if the "few" sellers decided to stop crafting and selling huh? You think the buyers would be happy buying from bots selling at inflated prices? Cos that's what's going to happen. And to your last point, go ahead and sell at "normal" prices. Be my guest and play the "1 gil undercut game" with the bots. I don't have time nor the energy for that. So when I craft and sell I rather dump it at low prices so I can make a quick buck in the least amount of time possible (which is good for the market right? Buyers rejoice).

No matter how you look at it, bots are BAD for the market/economy. Without bots;
- I would not have to dump truck loads of items for basically free.
- I would not even have to craft truck loads of items.
- I would not have to update my retainers every 5min because the bot script keeps running 24/7.
- I would not have to come to the forums and complain about trivial things.
- And so on

[Kes13a]

its official, SE condones cheating and RMT bots.

in their opinion, opening up world travel had no negative effects (except for making it far easier for botters gaining money across a data center to operate)

[Dragonkat]

Data center travel....

RIP JP markets. But maybe it'll get the STF off their butts when it's their markets getting bot spammed.

[Kes13a]

Data center travel....

RIP JP markets. But maybe it'll get the STF off their butts when it's their markets getting bot spammed.

yeah, not going to hold my breath on the STF doing anything.

if SE does anything, will be to restrict travel to the JPN data center.. then they dont have to do anything about bots and RMT rings

[Kes13a]

I really just shake my head...

one of the crafting/market bots on Zalera is ranked in the top 12 fc's. they have 9 people, 8 of those people are running retainers at market bells and having leveled in... months.
the fc leader rarely leaves their apartment and given how high they rank, and how much gear they churn out, obviously crafts 24/7

how is it that doesnt raise ANY flags at SE. I crafts daily, the fc has many active leveling members... and we are nowhere near that.

I dont get it.

[Jojoya]

Ofc there are more buyers than sellers. What if the "few" sellers decided to stop crafting and selling huh?

Except there will always be new sellers to appear to those who want to buy. That's our capitalist society - a seller will always appear when there is some profit, small or large, to be made.

Why do you think gaming can't get rid of bots and RMT? It's because they keep going after the bots instead of going after those who benefit from using those services.

You could take a step back and look at logical responses to your points.

Why are you trying to deal in those items if you're practically giving them away for free when you could be choosing other items that yield a greater profit? There absolutely are underserved areas of the market board that will generate steady, though not grossly exaggerated, profits.

Why are you crafting truck loads of items at all?

Why are you updating your retainers every 5 minutes instead of sitting tight at your preferred price when all that does is get those running the price adjustment scripts to lower prices even more?

Why are you coming to the forums to complain about something you feel is trivial?

I really just shake my head...

one of the crafting/market bots on Zalera is ranked in the top 12 fc's. they have 9 people, 8 of those people are running retainers at market bells and having leveled in... months.
the fc leader rarely leaves their apartment and given how high they rank, and how much gear they churn out, obviously crafts 24/7

how is it that doesnt raise ANY flags at SE. I crafts daily, the fc has many active leveling members... and we are nowhere near that.

I dont get it.

Why would that raise red flags? Crafting Expert and level 80 Master recipes generates a disproportionately large number of company credits compared to the amount generated by doing most other content. Turning in crafted gear (esp HQ), dungeon drops and tomestone gear (the higher the ilvl the better) for GC seals also generates large amounts of company credits. The number of credits generated by doing quests is insignificant in comparison.

Every time I go on a major crafting binge, our FC will shoot up somewhere between 6th and 12th place where we're normally in the 30s-40s. It doesn't take all that much to get near the top on lower pop worlds (by NA standards) like Coeurl and Zalera.

A FC's ranking isn't going to raise red flags. The individual ranking of a player might. Not trying to say the player you're referring to is or is not botting, just that the criteria you're using isn't proof of anything.