Does Square intend to address Market botting?

[NamidaTekika]

I can tell you right now that "time/position/action" information is not maintained in a database for query. The raw amount of data that would need to be collected makes it fiscally irresponsible to consider it.

Last login is saved somewhere there and we know thats one thing that can be checked for certain. For items to be created into inventory there has to be some form of logging for that (otherwise thered likely be dupe bugs galore). I'd think there is likely some kind of logging in terms of completion of quests and the like too since many MSQ quests award achievements and leveling classes do too (and probably some kind of timestamp for quest completions) that could fairly easily be compared to a baseline travel time that the low hanging fruit bots bypass weird their movement hacks (literally watching them move into and out of the ground for example). You might not be able to track exact time/position/action but there is enough relational data associated you could probably easily go "If a player last login > X, and completes Quest Y, Z, A in under B, than ban."

Heck just the complete time for several of the achievements like level 20 in a class and MSQ achieve would do wonders, since if you know the rough time to complete by just full out sprinting or something normally, the bots would likely always be under that given their teleporting movement, easily kills most of the low hanging fruit.

Wanna talk about low hanging fruit too....Eastern La Nosca/Raincatcher Gully 18.52,33.2, right there at that big rock bots constantly appear inside it (literally reported 6 of them different gibberish names) spawn wandering souls for a quest of some sort, kill them from inside the rock and disappear. They never come out of the rock or even use the actual teleport ability. A simple timing of the quest accept/complete could nail almost every single one.

These even are more complicated than the market or gathering bots we are talking about above is whats so sad. They actually do various quests and combat, the ones we truly have issues with are the ones that are REALLY obvious in how they move and sit there and do nothing else for days/weeks on end.

[TheLoveJenovan]

I can tell you right now that "time/position/action" information is not maintained in a database for query. The raw amount of data that would need to be collected makes it fiscally irresponsible to consider it.

Thanks DPZ2,

They wouldn't have to store this information in their databases; they could get the client to log this information and send a digest to the server. If a server is worried about the trustworthiness of this data, they could just have it signed. This is already done, for example, with cookie data stored in a web browser. SE has the advantage that they also control the client.

That said, their database could still log small amounts of information, like time logged in without being AFK, that would be useful to identify bots from their end.

[Kes13a]

I can tell you right now that "time/position/action" information is not maintained in a database for query. The raw amount of data that would need to be collected makes it fiscally irresponsible to consider it.

I would say this would not need to be constantly running. diagnostic software is rarely set to run by default. however, it should be there to be activated if an account is reported simply for logging purposes. you cannot possibly imagine they have people that just watch a character for hour on end for RMT transactions, or you think its just lucky happenstance that a GM notices it?

because that indeed would be irresponsible. you make it sound like they have zero safeguards against any kind of data checking beyond, if we are lucky, server backup.

[Kes13a]

it being so difficult to stop these bots in all levels and areas of the game, one has to wonder why the Japanese servers have so many fewer of them?

[Jojoya]

But where could you find Auction house bots? WoW, Elder Scrolls? No.

There absolutely are AH bots in WoW and have been going back at least to Wrath (and likely farther). You could see price updates happen faster than a human can manage even if you were using the AH scanning add-ons like TSM.

I don't play ESO but my understanding there is there is no central AH/marketboard in that game. Instead, there are player organized Guild Stores that will sell to other players who visit the location of the guild store. Do you honestly think there are no botting groups running any of those stores with a network of alts joining different guild stores to keep on top of prices?

I'm not denying that botting is a problem in this game. I'm not denying that it would be nice to see some more dramatic changes in the extent of the problem.

But I am going to be a realist and accept that it's something that SE will not be able to stamp out entirely. Rather than let their existence ruin my enjoyment of the game, I'm going to keep enjoying it as I work around them where necessary. They're still going to be an annoyance but life's filled with annoyances we learn to ignore.

We're only asking for an official response.

What sort of official response are you expecting? "We know the bots exist and we're doing what we can to counter them."?

We already know they know. We get a weekly notice with actions taken against "Illicit Activities" including botting. Why do they need to say anything else?

it being so difficult to stop these bots in all levels and areas of the game, one has to wonder why the Japanese servers have so many fewer of them?

I'm not certain how you've decided how many bots are on each server.

But assuming you're correct, I'd guess it's due to those servers having much smaller populations than NA servers. One of the census sites I had looked at earlier this year listed the average population of JP worlds at 7600 versus an average of 11000 on NA worlds. Few customers would mean fewer bots needed.

It could also be a cultural difference. I don't know how RMT and botting are viewed in Japan. I know RMT is actually very popular and considered acceptable in some Asian countries but Japan is very different in a lot of ways. If RMT is a major cultural taboo, that's going to cut into the potential customers even more.

[Kes13a]

I think only someone borderline insane would think that SE would be able to stamp hard enough to remove bots completely. some people will always want to cheat to get ahead and some people will always come up with a way, that for a few innocent dollars, they can do that.

in complete honesty, I would even be happy if SE just came out with a statement acknowledging the problem. I dont need something like "we have TOP people working on the issue and will have it eradicated!" because thats just a load of BS. I am a reasonable person, something like "we know there's a wide ranging issue with botting currently and we are looking into the best ways to deal with it. Please be patient with us while we determine the most thorough path through this mess"

Either that or even just "yep, bots are a problem, learn to live with them..."

at least then we know what direction they are intending to go in

[Angelhearth]

I received the following from SE, and what it tells me is that they have all, but given up.
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support_eu_ig2@square-enix.com

9:33 PM (16 minutes ago)



to XXX







Greetings and thank you for contacting the FINAL FANTASY XIV Support Desk with your concern.

We appreciate your report about a player suspected of using a third-party software as we can understand the frustration caused by such practices.
Please be assured that we are serious about taking action on this sort of disruptive behaviour as stated below:
https://sqex.to/HyQHz

However, in order to ensure a quicker and more accurate investigation of such incidents, please do not hesitate to report them directly to the Special Task Force on the Support Centre website at the following address:

https://support.eu.square-enix.com -> FINAL FANTASY XIV -> 'Report bugs or offending players' (bottom right) -> 'Report a case to the Special Task Force'.

Once your report is submitted, we will unfortunately be unable to provide any updates or information regarding any action taken against the suspect player.

Thank you once more for your co-operation regarding this matter and we would like to sincerely apologise for any inconvenience caused.

Regards,

- The FINAL FANTASY XIV Game Master Team

[TheLoveJenovan]

Thanks Angelhearth, I agree.

I've tried that too and tried the STF as well. From my interactions with the Support Desk, I've concluded that they're an outside company that sends form emails to act as a firewall from the users/customers (us). I concluded this after they started using generic terms like "We apologize that the product/service you are referring to does not meet your expectations." (page 16)

I also sent reports on two bots 3 months ago to the STF, and there have been no changes. One was a DOL/Ephemeral bot that runs a script with no entropy 24/7 to collect from Ephemeral Nodes.
(If you send a report to the STF, it's a basic textbox that takes a very small number of characters, and you may have to include a link to external documentation, which they'll apparently also ignore.)

Otherwise, I'd suggest that you keep posting in this thread. There has been the odd poster that advocates for the status quo, without explaining their motivations for not wanting to improve the game, but it has otherwise been fruitful. Hopefully we can make enough noise to at least get a response.

[Kes13a]

ran across something a bit distressing while checking out the various botting forums. This is from a company that as of late last year, said they would not do bots that did market undercutting because it would ruin the market. Since then either they changed their mind, or another company decided ruining the market wasnt their problem. This quote from their forums however says it all...

"FFXIV is a very bot friendly game, and for the most part our activities are overlooked."

seems you can bot pretty much everything in FF XIV, and I mean...everything. the prevailing view on the forums is unless you are abysmally stupid, you have zero to worry about.

[Angelhearth]

More communicatio0n with the GM's. What I've gotten so far is that the GM's do what they can and that they are nor allowed to escalate any issues, hence the link they sent me.
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support_eu_ig2@square-enix.com

12:37 PM (1 hour ago)



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Dear Sverre,

Thank you for your reply.

We are sincerely sorry to hear that your are not happy with our response.

As explained previously, in order to ensure a quicker and more accurate investigation, please report this incident directly to the Special Task Force on the Support Centre website at the following address:

https://support.eu.square-enix.com -> FINAL FANTASY XIV -> 'Report bugs or offending players' (bottom right) -> 'Report a case to the Special Task Force'.

If you have already done so, please note that investigations involving third-party softwares might take more time as the department of the Special Task Force regularly receive numerous reports. Therefore, we kindly ask for your patience while they look into your case.

Thank you for your report and we deeply apologise for any inconvenience caused.

Regards,

- The FINAL FANTASY XIV Game Master Team