Creation Magic and Summoning

[Asildor]

Presumably, anyone capable of manipulating aether is capable of Creation magics, but most people don't know how to do it. The amount of aether the creator pours into it seems to determine how long the creation can last on its own without consuming external aether; primals need a constant supply of crystals and faith (which, itself, may just be another way of focusing aether into the target), while Emet-Selch's recreation of Amaurot continues to endure after his death (not to mention releasing Archeotania to roam the Tempest).

I kinda wonder how these revelations play into Fray and Myste from the dark knight job quests. Especially with Myste, who would seem to be a summon who can create more summons, like a primal creating adds to fight for them.

Just a personal theory but I think it has to do with us being sundered, of course, amount of aether is an important matter as well but during the Amaroth questline, we were tasked with weaving an item into existence, not only did we need to gather aether, but npc also mentioned how it felt like we were imcapable of mentally casting the magic.

I think that is why summoner summons aren't indefinate. We are using a less perfected version of creation magics, downed from primal summoning which ascians taught beast tribes to sow chaos and imbalance of aether. (Hence primals feeding on aether constantly)

My theory is that is exactly why summoner needs runes and symbols to guide their magics, or the combine faith of a whole group. It is because we do not have the mental understanding and instinct to weave such interacate rules for aether purely within our minds.

Essentially our creations 'leak' aether and cannot hold a stable form without constant feed, unlike I imagine proper creation magic where creations are alive and well far after their creation.

We have even seen spriggans being created, a race of monsters that had far outlasted the race of ancients who created them. Cleary ancients creations do not require a constant feed of aether.

[Jandor]

Creation magic seems to be a different 'tier' of magic. Creation magic - regular magic - no magic. Summoning appears to be the closest you can get to creation while still using regular.

[Lyth]

Arcane entities still require an energy source for sustenance. That's why Hermes has us help out with feeding the lightning pneuma with aether near Anagnorisis. Anything that can move without consuming energy is by definition a perpetual motion machine of the first kind, which would violate the Ea's heat death theory.

[Cygnia]

An Amaroutian in one quest discusses the use of a 'matrix' to store his proposed creation and it is well established the complex entities like Carbuncle and Eos are generated using crystals, said to be ideal for 'data storage'. It could very well be that Creation magic beyond short lived conjuration was once beyond ancient humanity as well...is there any solid indication the unsundered Ascians were empowered by Zodiark? If so, Emet's recreation of Amarout on the ocean floor might not be a good metric for what the average Ancient was capable of achieving with their own two hands and nothing else.

[Dikatis]

An Amaroutian in one quest discusses the use of a 'matrix' to store his proposed creation and it is well established the complex entities like Carbuncle and Eos are generated using crystals, said to be ideal for 'data storage'. It could very well be that Creation magic beyond short lived conjuration was once beyond ancient humanity as well...is there any solid indication the unsundered Ascians were empowered by Zodiark? If so, Emet's recreation of Amarout on the ocean floor might not be a good metric for what the average Ancient was capable of achieving with their own two hands and nothing else.

Well, Emet-Selch was a member of the Convocation of Fourteen. Hythlodaeus, Chief of the Bureau of the Architect and thus the overseer of any and all creations that get submitted to it, says he knows of no mage more powerful. He was never going to be a measuring stick for the "average" ancient when he's consistently referred to as being exceptional compared to his peers.

[Cleretic]

Creation magic seems to be a different 'tier' of magic. Creation magic - regular magic - no magic. Summoning appears to be the closest you can get to creation while still using regular.

Not quite a different 'tier', but definitely a different school making use of a very different amount of aether. Aetherically speaking, we are too tiny to use creation magi even if we knew how.

[Absimiliard]

Not quite a different 'tier', but definitely a different school making use of a very different amount of aether. Aetherically speaking, we are too tiny to use creation magi even if we knew how.

We actually do use creation magics of a sort. You learn while leveling disciples of the hand how, on a fundamental level, the way we create via crafting is alarmingly similar to the creation magics practiced by the ancients. The key difference is our need for materials, where they usually required no such assistance.

As an added note: some text in Emet-Selch's reproduction of Amaurot indicates clearly the ancients made allowances for individuals of lower aetheric density and/or skill, most notably children, by providing materials.

[KageTokage]

Everything indicates that crafting is largely a mundane process and outside of the use of elemental crystal and perhaps certain applications no actual magic is at play.

Use of catalysts as a means of overcoming arcane limitations was definitely a thing both in ancient times and the present, though.

[Cleretic]

Everything indicates that crafting is largely a mundane process and outside of the use of elemental crystal and perhaps certain applications no actual magic is at play.

Use of catalysts as a means of overcoming arcane limitations was definitely a thing both in ancient times and the present, though.

Yeah, anyone who says the crafting classes are using creation magic of any kind are just proving how they didn't actually pay attention to the crafting storylines, and are giving what was basically a joke sidequest more weight than all of them. Every single crafting story actually explains that the most magic we're doing is stuff like using fire crystals to heat things up, or wind crystals to aid in cutting motions.

Hell, Leatherworker's stories just wouldn't work on a basic level if it turns out we were doing creation magic. Their stories are focused on calling out shoddy workmanship, producing mid-cost goods, and taxidermy; none of those really swing if it turns out every leatherworker is just some variety of wizard.

[Layte_Aeon]

Yeah, anyone who says the crafting classes are using creation magic of any kind are just proving how they didn't actually pay attention to the crafting storylines, and are giving what was basically a joke sidequest more weight than all of them. Every single crafting story actually explains that the most magic we're doing is stuff like using fire crystals to heat things up, or wind crystals to aid in cutting motions.

Hell, Leatherworker's stories just wouldn't work on a basic level if it turns out we were doing creation magic. Their stories are focused on calling out shoddy workmanship, producing mid-cost goods, and taxidermy; none of those really swing if it turns out every leatherworker is just some variety of wizard.

Well it's not creation magic but lorewise the method of crafting we use is synthesis, using the energy of crystals to perform the work you'd usually do in a fraction of the time. However it still requires that the crafter know what they're doing and be able to do it. Also it requires crystals and the general populace doesn't quite have the same access to crystals that we do.