WAR needs love

[Kabooa]

You can also just stock the Chaos earlier instead of double weaving it.

Regarding Nascent Flash specifically, the only thing I would change for it is traiting Raw Intuition with it, letting you either self cast RI, or targeting an ally grants the effect of NF to the two of you, as normal, but this would be in the scenario when the Warrior doesn't have a button count that fits on two hands.

[LunaChild]

Maybe make it like DRG's Dragon Sight that if you don't target any party member, you only granted buff on your side.
But if the change remove the ability to heal you and party simultaneously, I will be sad.

[Liam_Harper]

NF is basically an example of the problem with tank design and balance in general. It functions and it's technically fine and balanced, but it's not really that fun to use and a little tedious. Tanks are designed to function in endgame in a balanced manner, they are not designed to feel like powerful juggernauts with engaging smooth gameplay, unlike dps classes.

War just has no soul to it. It has IR and all those traits for big crits and ends up with the lowest dps and besides that, does what every other tank does. It's not exciting at all.

[Anuri]

"WaRrIoR Is FiNe"

https://www.fflogs.com/zone/statisti...gregate=amount

if you wanna do damage, just play ANY healer lol

[Hierro]

"WaRrIoR Is FiNe"

https://www.fflogs.com/zone/statisti...gregate=amount

if you wanna do damage, just play ANY healer lol

Don't act like this is a WAR issue. Look at that, 2/3 healers beat out ALL tanks.

Now, as far as TANKS are concerned, in relationship to one another, WAR is fine. But tanks in general, ARE NOT fine. Learn the difference dude.

[Anuri]

Replace warrior with dark knight and it would still hold true. But it's a warrior thread, isn't it?

Warrior is the least played tank class despite being there from day one. It can't be the rotation because "every tank has the same boring 1,2,3 rota" as many people stated before.

I'm not smart enough to know the difference, as you so eloquently put it. Help me out a bit. Why are only 2% warrior in the top 50 raid kills? These guilds seem to do it wrong too, because "WAR is fine in relationship to one another".

[ArianeEwah]

snip

No, Heirro is right. WAR is fine compared to its tank brethren.

Just looking at the "played" numbers doesn't help. In fact, we could construe the number of GNB parses as GNB being the 2nd worst/least enjoyable tank. Yet, the most recent poll from reddit and also recent forum thread GNB is one of the most liked job of all FF14 ShB jobs right now.
GNB also having the highest representation of all tanks for speed kills says it's favored.

As Heirro said:

But tanks in general, ARE NOT fine.

Also, WAR losing the most unique design mechanics, aestetics, and -last, but not least- dps from SB to ShB has hurt those "WAR mains". (I am using quotation mark on purpose bc it's mostly people jump off of WAR who enjoyed being the highest dps tank.)

I would've also rather enjoyed enhanced tank dynamics on every other tank instead of getting cuts on WAR identity, but here we are.

[BarretOblivion]

No, Heirro is right. WAR is fine compared to its tank brethren.

Just looking at the "played" numbers doesn't help. In fact, we could construe the number of GNB parses as GNB being the 2nd worst/least enjoyable tank. Yet, the most recent poll from reddit and also recent forum thread GNB is one of the most liked job of all FF14 ShB jobs right now.
GNB also having the highest representation of all tanks for speed kills says it's favored.

As Heirro said:


Also, WAR losing the most unique design mechanics, aestetics, and -last, but not least- dps from SB to ShB has hurt those "WAR mains". (I am using quotation mark on purpose bc it's mostly people jump off of WAR who enjoyed being the highest dps tank.)

I would've also rather enjoyed enhanced tank dynamics on every other tank instead of getting cuts on WAR identity, but here we are.

Mmm, I would put a pin in the GNB clear/played argument with TEA basically alienating GNB from a spot in most groups. GNB has the worst personal mitigation of tanks... and TEA you need personal mitigation as a tank in that fight (one of the few fights that require high mitigation for both tanks).
Other than that, GNB is the 'hardest' tank to play with optimization on fights from a rotation standpoint (PLD has to adjust thier rotations per fight so I balance the two out there) leading to more players going towards the 'casual' tanks of WAR/DRK or PLD with even unoptimized does well in most fights.
The biggest reason though is that 'ease of use' personally I feel as I have seen a surge of new tanks this expansion, but a mass migration of veteran tanks at the same time unhappy with where Tanks are in general from ShB. So the skill median of tanks has indeed dropped with more new tanks having little idea what they are doing even on the easy tanks (seriously I had a WAR PUG in 5S tout how they would MT and they were hot stuff... I was parsing and didn't say a word but was sitting about 3k DPS higher than the 'hot stuff' Tank).

[ArianeEwah]

snip

Funny enough, even with the "least" mitigation GNB is still in the top parses of TEA for speed runs. My guess as to why DRK/PLD is so common there is PLDs stong party mitigation, HG, and DRK TBN -which is ridiculously strong there, it's no joke- that make it fairly easy to mitigate most damage, instead of optimizing every single incoming damage -which only a handful of people even think about. (Dark Mind is also insane, ~half of all tank busters are magical, and all raid-wides are magical, too.)

On point of increase of tank population: 'ease of use' bears a wide range of meaning here, I would like to know what you exactly mean by that.
Not only are the (dps) rotations rather dull and simple as well as aggro management becoming a joke, but mitigation is also risible. As long as a tank sits at max HP, a simple CD (like Sheltron or HoS) is enough for tank busters. This puts a heavy burden on healers, but the game doesn't really give you feedback about your mitigation skills. The tank mastery makes tanking imo far too easy. I remember that I actually had to create a cooldown rotation map, so I could optimize my dps, I had no other choice or we wouldn't hit dps check. Today's tanks can't optimize dps by mapping their cooldowns, yet this influx of tanks blame it on healers when they die or hit enrage. (my own story: I recently went E7s as healer, WAR was MT'ing. They used never used any Rampart, Vengeance nor Nascent Flash. Only 4 Raw Intuitions, which 2 of them + 1 Thrill for Shake It Off. Equilibrium also only when they invul'ed the shared tank buster. In short: they used actual "real self-mitigation" only twice the whole fight of 11 min with a freaking add phase for an astounding duration of 12s. My tank heart was f*cking crying. How can you even play tank without actually "playing tank"?!)

[BarretOblivion]

Funny enough, even with the "least" mitigation GNB is still in the top parses of TEA for speed runs. My guess as to why DRK/PLD is so common there is PLDs stong party mitigation, HG, and DRK TBN -which is ridiculously strong there, it's no joke- that make it fairly easy to mitigate most damage, instead of optimizing every single incoming damage -which only a handful of people even think about. (Dark Mind is also insane, ~half of all tank busters are magical, and all raid-wides are magical, too.)

On point of increase of tank population: 'ease of use' bears a wide range of meaning here, I would like to know what you exactly mean by that.
Not only are the (dps) rotations rather dull and simple as well as aggro management becoming a joke, but mitigation is also risible. As long as a tank sits at max HP, a simple CD (like Sheltron or HoS) is enough for tank busters. This puts a heavy burden on healers, but the game doesn't really give you feedback about your mitigation skills. The tank mastery makes tanking imo far too easy. I remember that I actually had to create a cooldown rotation map, so I could optimize my dps, I had no other choice or we wouldn't hit dps check. Today's tanks can't optimize dps by mapping their cooldowns, yet this influx of tanks blame it on healers when they die or hit enrage. (my own story: I recently went E7s as healer, WAR was MT'ing. They used never used any Rampart, Vengeance nor Nascent Flash. Only 4 Raw Intuitions, which 2 of them + 1 Thrill for Shake It Off. Equilibrium also only when they invul'ed the shared tank buster. In short: they used actual "real self-mitigation" only twice the whole fight of 11 min with a freaking add phase for an astounding duration of 12s. My tank heart was f*cking crying. How can you even play tank without actually "playing tank"?!)

I agree all tank rotations are far too easy, but I think the DRK/WAR rotations are outliers of being exceptionally easy.