WAR needs love

[A-Omega]

You have to look at what you get from the skill before you compare it. The purpose of WAR using NF is for the health regen(something gutted from the kit in stormblood, but still attached to steel cyclone, that still got gutted). You can’t compare that to intervention which exists ONLY as utility.
Had NF given a free infuriate stack, I’d be fine with it. Rip out a core element in our job, then give it back in a weird gated fashion just seems...wrong

[A-Omega]

Holmgang is the best???? In what world!!! You can’t possibly play tank if you honestly believe that. Give me invulnerability over dropping to 1 hp and hoping a healer can save you any day.

[Claire_Pendragon]

Holmgang is the best???? In what world!!! You can’t possibly play tank if you honestly believe that. Give me invulnerability over dropping to 1 hp and hoping a healer can save you any day.

they are referring to savage fights, not 4man dungeons (to an extent EX/24man. since damage isnt always fatal w/o a CD, and nor do u always need 2, or even 3, CDs to survive a TB)
Invincibility will be better for 4 mans, but being able to survive multiple tank busters that deal more than all your HP in dmg, rather often, is always more useful than 1 invincibility in the same savage fight. The only reason its value is much lower now, is (1) they created fights where soaking dmg was longer than a the duration of old holmgang, or (2) didnt have a target before the change to holmgang. and the biggest reason (3) theres no longer a "DPS stance" in which u can truly benefit from having holmgang take ungodly strong TBs with, w/o having to worry about stacking CDs, turning tank stance on, and or use a tank swap for, due to not having enough CDs to survive.

Obviously in a 4man pull, going to 1 hp just means the healer couldnt outheal the dmg they take, and so its pointless. but in a savage fight, the boss charages up a single attack, and after its over, they go back to tickling u with light auto dmg, and a healer can more than easily bring u up past the safety net. (And so can you as WAR with Thrill+equilibrium+NF combined. But this is one of the reasons I wish Thrill of battle was WARs primary CD, instead of RI.)

[aodhan_ofinnegain]

It’s kinda of not a equivalent since NF isn’t on a gauge and isn’t only for a party member DR

Read your tooltips NF is also a DR, of 10%, that also happens to heal both the WAR and targeted party member. So irrespective of costing gauge they both have the same function. NF is ST support skill with a bit of WAR flavour mixed in. To say contrary is incorrect otherwise devs woulda gave WAR Bloodbath.

[Vatom]

Read your tooltips NF is also a DR, of 10%, that also happens to heal both the WAR and targeted party member. So irrespective of costing gauge they both have the same function. NF is ST support skill with a bit of WAR flavour mixed in. To say contrary is incorrect otherwise devs woulda gave WAR Bloodbath.

I feel like you didn’t even read what I said they aren’t the same pld can buff theirs
Higher with cds so it’s like giving some ones cd NF is a solid 10% dr plus quoting someone else who I guess is the parse good 5k heals adds bosses etc all do like 10k + base att dmg heals are not DRs guys plz stop thinking that way they are time prolonging yes but not dmg reducing so if you get crit or hit with something big down you go NF isn’t the same as intervention it just has similar duration and dr unless buffed that all I’m hearing If that’s the case then tbn would be the same according to your logic but tbn is insanely good and leagues better heart of stone and brutal shell better 15% dr with a shield come on bro do you read lol do you even tank

[Kabooa]

I feel like you didn’t even read what I said they aren’t the same pld can buff theirs
Higher with cds so it’s like giving some ones cd NF is a solid 10% dr plus quoting someone else who I guess is the parse good 5k heals adds bosses etc all do like 10k + base att dmg heals are not DRs guys plz stop thinking that way they are time prolonging yes but not dmg reducing so if you get crit or hit with something big down you go NF isn’t the same as intervention it just has similar duration and dr unless buffed that all I’m hearing If that’s the case then tbn would be the same according to your logic but tbn is insanely good and leagues better heart of stone and brutal shell better 15% dr with a shield come on bro do you read lol do you even tank

Look up the Dunning-Kruger effect.

[Vatom]

Look up the Dunning-Kruger effect.

Cute but that still doesn’t get us anywhere nor have proven anything but insults

[Gyukaku]

WAR can only perform satisfactorily in MT.
But since DRK is the most active in MT, there is no need for WAR.
ST has the best PLD, so the other tanks will have to give up their seats.
Now PLD has a monopoly on ST, and the other tanks are competing for MT.
Unless the ST problem is solved, the adoption rate of WAR with inferior MT performance will remain the lowest.
WAR is the weakest in the tank, so I want to improve it.

[Hierro]

WAR can only perform satisfactorily in MT.
But since DRK is the most active in MT, there is no need for WAR.
ST has the best PLD, so the other tanks will have to give up their seats.
Now PLD has a monopoly on ST, and the other tanks are competing for MT.
Unless the ST problem is solved, the adoption rate of WAR with inferior MT performance will remain the lowest.
WAR is the weakest in the tank, so I want to improve it.

I guess GNB just stinks, eh?

On the subject of WAR: It performs as well as DRK. DRK works great as a tank, but WAR affords the healers more DPS because NF, ToB, and Equilibrium all give out fairly consistent ways to self-heal without requiring a healer's GCD. That is to say, WAR's DPS isn't just the damage it brings on its own, but the damage it allows healers as well.

Now, I would argue DRK is capable of some healing via shielding from TBN, but it's nowhere near as forgiving or potent as the healing done with WAR. To optimize TBN, you would have to use it frequently enough to the point you're risking having the bubble not pop, but that can be avoided with practice and rote memorization. But again, that's still not as good as what WAR brings to the table while requiring a higher skill level to achieve.

As for mitigation itself, let's think on the following: Old school defiance, shield oath, and grit were mathematical equivalents. One gave 25% more HP, while the others reduced damage by 20%. So, mathematically speaking, TBN and RI are eHP equivalents. However, NF is better than RI when damage is non-lethal, so there's a logical basis for saying it beats out TBN. Granted, the argument is obviously more nuanced, TBN and NF both interact and synergize with other cooldowns in their own way, and benefits to supplementing the other tank.

Point being, there's good enough reason to bring WAR as MT.

[aodhan_ofinnegain]

I feel like you didn’t even read what I said they aren’t the same pld can buff theirs
Higher with cds so it’s like giving some ones cd NF is a solid 10% dr plus quoting someone else who I guess is the parse good 5k heals adds bosses etc all do like 10k + base att dmg heals are not DRs guys plz stop thinking that way they are time prolonging yes but not dmg reducing so if you get crit or hit with something big down you go NF isn’t the same as intervention it just has similar duration and dr unless buffed that all I’m hearing If that’s the case then tbn would be the same according to your logic but tbn is insanely good and leagues better heart of stone and brutal shell better 15% dr with a shield come on bro do you read lol do you even tank

It’s kinda of not a equivalent since NF isn’t on a gauge and isn’t only for a party member DR

So I have what you said and you said "it's kinda of not a equivalent", when both require a target, and both give said target damage reduction, both have a degree of job flavour, I mean unless you cannot understand what you wrote, Idk but that is as close as you get to the same skill without homogenisation. And yes, TBN and HoS are all under the the same branch as Intervention and Nascent Flash, when used on another party member as they all mitigate damage on another party member.

"come on bro do you read lol do you even tank" also personal attacks like this are nothing but a pathetic scapegoat when someone is talking out of their a** but yes I can tank bro, with all savage fights from Creator up to current tier minus Shiva cleared, due to finishing off TEA, with no ultimate in 5.3 we took our time and have Ultimate kills under my belt, all as PLD, so yea bro I can tank leagues better than you.