Can we please get aggro management back?

[Fynlar]

You are still saying we should not add threat management because of bad players. That seems silly.

Well, there's also the fact I don't feel it adds that much to the game anyway, now that you bring that up.

But even besides that, are you going to say what makes the argument silly, or are we just supposed to take your word for it? A lot of people ARE bad players, and "DPS" tanks (very commonplace, because of the prevailing attitude of "everyone do as much damage as humanly possible, gotta go fast") are just one of those things that made threat management awful for everyone else to have to deal with.

Tanks didn't need to get Shirk as an ability last expansion; they were practically already managing it without needing an ability specifically named for it.

[Morningstar1337]

Kinda a tangent, but Come to think of it. I noticed that in Stromblood and beyond all accs are locked to their proper class. I wonder if the use of STR accs was the cause?

[Valkyrie_Lenneth]

Kinda a tangent, but Come to think of it. I noticed that in Stromblood and beyond all accs are locked to their proper class. I wonder if the use of STR accs was the cause?

It definitely was. They specifically said so.

[wereotter]

Stormblood proved that tanks had little interest in using the emnity tools they had and preferred to push that responsibility off to everyone else in the team. Stormblood also proved that DPS and healers didn't want to use those tools, justifying it with the argument that agro management is the primary responsibility of the tank.

So if you're the game developer, you had two choices. Continue to double down on the system that has caused a lot of community bickering for four-six years, and to a degree scared people off from playing a tanking job entirely (because no one will let you sit in tank stance while you're still learning when it's safe to turn it off) or just abandon the mechanic, eliminate agro management, and let tanks do full damage all the time.

If only from the perspective that there's at least a little less bickering between players, the current system is superior.

[dinnertime]

I don't know why stances were a thing when they seem redundant anyway. I feel like having an enmity-building combo that's more than enough to hold it, and a general DPS combo should've sufficed. Having two combos at least makes tanks less boring to play, too.

[Fynlar]

People have different tastes and that is fine, but I do find it odd that people can be against something because of others so to speak. Players will be bad, I do think we should balance the game around bad players. Run into a bad player give them the boot and move on, do not waste your time with them.

Again, I ran into these kinds of tanks so frequently in DF that I would not have been able to kick them all. I could have just left too, I suppose, but then I wouldn't get any of my roulettes and crap done. What you suggest wouldn't have been an adequate solution.

Stormblood proved that tanks had little interest in using the emnity tools they had and preferred to push that responsibility off to everyone else in the team. Stormblood also proved that DPS and healers didn't want to use those tools, justifying it with the argument that agro management is the primary responsibility of the tank.

So if you're the game developer, you had two choices. Continue to double down on the system that has caused a lot of community bickering for four-six years, and to a degree scared people off from playing a tanking job entirely (because no one will let you sit in tank stance while you're still learning when it's safe to turn it off) or just abandon the mechanic, eliminate agro management, and let tanks do full damage all the time.

If only from the perspective that there's at least a little less bickering between players, the current system is superior.

Well said, except that I'd say the issue really started in Heavensward, namely when Deliverance got introduced. Cue all the warriors who observed that Defiance didn't give any direct damage reduction (nevermind the fact that it did give increased heals, which was its own form of damage "mitigation") and then subsequently saw fit to try to stay in Deliverance whenever possible.

Also, STR accessories. At least Stormblood started to change that part.

[Awha]

Again, I ran into these kinds of tanks so frequently in DF that I would not have been able to kick them all. I could have just left too, I suppose, but then I wouldn't get any of my roulettes and crap done. What you suggest wouldn't have been an adequate solution.

Well said, except that I'd say the issue really started in Heavensward, namely when Deliverance got introduced. Cue all the warriors who observed that Defiance didn't give any direct damage reduction (nevermind the fact that it did give increased heals, which was its own form of damage "mitigation") and then subsequently saw fit to try to stay in Deliverance whenever possible.

Also, STR accessories. At least Stormblood started to change that part.

If I was not able to boot them I simply left the group. Boils down to different people different mindsets. Though even with that it still seems odd why people would rather balance the game from the bottom up. Why balance a game around bad players? This is not just about aggro management goes but with healing also. Making the role require less depend either on the group or player seems like an odd approach it increase the appeal of the role.

For me personally the most fun I had tanking in any expansion was HW, it just seems you have a personal beef with damage orientated play style which is fine, but seems unfair to me to base your disdain around such a play style solely around personal bad experiences. I mean you must have ran into tanks that were able to manage it perfectly fine and saw how smooth the run could be.

I guess for me coming from the side that x is bad thus because people are bad seems like a boring way to approach any aspect of game balance. I mean I get the DPS mindset has a learning curve and mistakes will be made, I have wiped many groups learning how to tank in dps stance as a war back in HW, but once you get the hang of it it did open up new depths of optimization in terms of play and also an added metric which one can judge ones performance as a tank and see their progression in form of clear times, less healing required etc . . .

Not so say current tanks lack optimization, but personally it is a shadow of its former self in my opinion.

[NanaWiloh]

Just make defense stance a trait and reduce enimity generation of a tanks dps combo. Then up enmity generation on threat abilities. Problem solved dps happy tanks can dps until their nose bleeds and confetti pops out their ears while the real tank handles the boss.

[Fynlar]

For me personally the most fun I had tanking in any expansion was HW, it just seems you have a personal beef with damage orientated play style which is fine, but seems unfair to me to base your disdain around such a play style solely around personal bad experiences. I mean you must have ran into tanks that were able to manage it perfectly fine and saw how smooth the run could be.

I really don't care how much damage tanks/healers can do so long as they're actually still doing their job/role. I don't get why it even needs to be said, but tanks/healers that fixate on doing damage to the point they forget what role they're actually playing and let people die because of it were/are a problem, not something to be encouraged.

[Awha]

I really don't care how much damage tanks/healers can do so long as they're actually still doing their job/role. I don't get why it even needs to be said, but tanks/healers that fixate on doing damage to the point they forget what role they're actually playing and let people die because of it were/are a problem, not something to be encouraged.

But tanks or healers that do that without trying to adjust from their mistake are simply bad players, has little to do with the play style itself but more so the player. Yes people will die when a tank or healer pushes their limits, and pushing ones comfort zone should be encouraged because that is how we learn to move past those limitation and become a better player overall.

I get it you do not like playing with bad players, don't we all. I hate playing with melee only rdms but I do not think SE should streamline their melee skills to the point where it becomes a non factor to rdm play style.