Can we please get aggro management back?

[Fynlar]

Think you are onto a losing battle with anything that implies 'depth' or 'effort' anymore. Sorry to rain on the parade but the modern collective mmo community just can't handle the brain power. Instant gratification, speed and hollow meaningless rewards and participation prizes are the name of the game. If the Japanese forums are anything to go by, expect more pruning in future as apposed to less.

You sound fun to have around.

[Duskane]

rather not tbh

[ChocoFeru]

I just want Cover to be useful again

[Jirah]

Yeah, I agree that the threat system in Stormblood (and you can even argue throughout FFXIV) was flawed, but I'd gladly take what Stormblood had over just pushing one button and forgetting about it. At least there was SOMETHING. And not to mention the other effects the tank stances had, such as Warrior's increased health and health restoration from magic or Paladin's 20% or something damage received down.

I agree with this one, the game already feels far too easy with the simplified dungeons and inconsequential areas. The jobs themselves have all gotten very easy over the years. Can’t wait for 6.0 where rotations are reduced to single buttons and 7.0 having Auto-Quest mode like those god awful mobile games and 8.0 just being a movie

[Colt47]

I thought threat management was all about punching things and then begging the healer to not let you die as you over pull an entire hallway from being used to endgame levels of gear. To be frank, I think the tanks need a little tweaking because paladin feels like the DOT needs to be a cooldown and the spell combo should be used when rampart is up, so you end up with something like X-1-2-3-ctrl+1-ctrl+2-ctrl+3 1-2-3-1-2-3-ctrl+1-ctrl+2-ctrl+3-X.

The reason the paladin needs to be like that is that unlike a dps they need to have spaces 4-5-6 and CTRL+4 CTRL+5 CTRL+6 for the stuff that is on cooldown but needs to be used rather frequently. This is to prevent RSI when playing the game since a lot of hand stretching leads to harming the hand. I tried playing with a restriction brace and using things like Gunbreaker was absolute torture.

Oh gods though is PVP way too simplified with the one button combo...

[Goji1639]

You people really like staring at lists, don't you? If that's fun for you then play a healer, but the LAST thing I want added to tanking is having constantly pull my attention away from the action to stare at that boring enmity list.

I wouldn't mind having a more difficult DPS rotation, or having my mitigation CDs be more life or death if I don't use them correctly, but why do MMO communities always default to the absolute most boring possible solutions to making things more "engaging?"

[TyrTry]

You people really like staring at lists, don't you? If that's fun for you then play a healer, but the LAST thing I want added to tanking is having constantly pull my attention away from the action to stare at that boring enmity list.

I wouldn't mind having a more difficult DPS rotation, or having my mitigation CDs be more life or death if I don't use them correctly, but why do MMO communities always default to the absolute most boring possible solutions to making things more "engaging?"

Personally, I don't think I ever had to stare at the enmity list during my time as tanking even back when Warriors could use Flash as an enmity increaser. Typically, when I see an enemy chomping on the healer's face, it was a good clue that I didn't have that enemy's attention. But I like the idea of a more complex DPS rotation (not difficult, but something that requires basic comprehension skills. Not just 1-2-3 with a special 4 thrown in when ready); with kind of a "consequence" for not doing the combo correctly like reduced enmity. Just an idea with too many variables however.

Honestly--and this going against popular opinion--I really don't mind aggro as it is now. As mentioned before, when Warriors could use Flash, aggro management was a nightmare for me, especially in lower dungeons; always fighting against the high-geared player who could just fart in the general direction of the enemy to immediately tick it off.

Even as simple as aggro management is now, I still find myself with tanks who struggle with maintaining aggro for a variety of reasons; making it more complex or bringing back stances would most likely have a more negative effect than a positive one for your daily tank (just imo however).

[Goji1639]

Personally, I don't think I ever had to stare at the enmity list during my time as tanking even back when Warriors could use Flash as an enmity increaser. Typically, when I see an enemy chomping on the healer's face, it was a good clue that I didn't have that enemy's attention. But I like the idea of a more complex DPS rotation (not difficult, but something that requires basic comprehension skills. Not just 1-2-3 with a special 4 thrown in when ready); with kind of a "consequence" for not doing the combo correctly like reduced enmity. Just an idea with too many variables however.

Honestly--and this going against popular opinion--I really don't mind aggro as it is now. As mentioned before, when Warriors could use Flash, aggro management was a nightmare for me, especially in lower dungeons; always fighting against the high-geared player who could just fart in the general direction of the enemy to immediately tick it off.

Even as simple as aggro management is now, I still find myself with tanks who struggle with maintaining aggro for a variety of reasons; making it more complex or bringing back stances would most likely have a more negative effect than a positive one for your daily tank (just imo however).

I wasn't really around when aggro management was more of a thing in this game, but when I played WoW way back it was just tedious. I suppose if you run with good groups that keep thing predictable you didn't have to focus on an aggro list, but in pugs and randoms people will randomly not use their aggro dumps, pop all CDs and unload at bad times, etc. so you're just going back and forth looking at the list making sure you're at the top.

It's the same way healing works here. In a good group it's whatever; in randoms people are getting hit by avoidable mechanics, cleaves, etc. constantly, so you're always half looking at the list half at the fight. That's not really avoidable with healing, which is one reason I imagine healing is so unpopular. There's NO REASON to turn tanking into that with aggro management, though. If I end up staring at a list, just so I can press a button to change stances if the little symbols change color then screw it, I'll play DPS. That's not fun or engaging, I don't know why anyone here would want that.

[Awha]

You people really like staring at lists, don't you? If that's fun for you then play a healer, but the LAST thing I want added to tanking is having constantly pull my attention away from the action to stare at that boring enmity list.

I wouldn't mind having a more difficult DPS rotation, or having my mitigation CDs be more life or death if I don't use them correctly, but why do MMO communities always default to the absolute most boring possible solutions to making things more "engaging?"

As a tank I have never had to stare at the enmity list. Though granted I am sure you were just exaggerating. I would also like for more complex rotations, and more active mitigation. Though I would also like my enmity management to also matter.

Well, there's also the fact I don't feel it adds that much to the game anyway, now that you bring that up.

But even besides that, are you going to say what makes the argument silly, or are we just supposed to take your word for it? A lot of people ARE bad players, and "DPS" tanks (very commonplace, because of the prevailing attitude of "everyone do as much damage as humanly possible, gotta go fast") are just one of those things that made threat management awful for everyone else to have to deal with.

Tanks didn't need to get Shirk as an ability last expansion; they were practically already managing it without needing an ability specifically for it.

I mean if you do not enjoy threat management who am I to say why you should, but in my opinion not adding x because of bad players seems awfully silly. Bottom top balance has never been my cup of tea.

At the end of the day it is clear you have your bias as do I. Nothing I or anyone else can say will sway your view because you have already shown you have a negative stimga towards dps tanks, and the meta surrounding it.

That is the thing about game systems for one person it might be a drag for another it could be a blast. I enjoyed DA spam, I enjoyed old cleric stance, hell I loved all stages of eureka. People have different tastes and that is fine, but I do find it odd that people can be against something because of others so to speak. Players will be bad, I do think we should balance the game around bad players. Run into a bad player give them the boot and move on, do not waste your time with them.

[StriderShinryu]

Threat Management is a weird one for me because I do feel the concept sounds good on paper but never really found it satisfying in game. It always ended up feeling very mechanical to me in that there were just specific times and places where you would use either an aggro generator or an aggro dump so it didn't really end up having a tactical use as much as it just became part of your basic skill rotation like any other buff or debuff. It was always like "Okay, I'm going to use my big damage combo now so I need to use my skill that reduces aggro for the next 10 seconds" or "Okay, the party is going to be outputting big damage now, I have to put on tank stance and generate aggro for a while until they're done" as specifically dictated by the fight mechanics.