Can we please get aggro management back?

[Videra]

You can say whatever you like about its efficiency, but the fact of the matter is I was getting tired of ripping hate (and often dying from it, which does the opposite of making fights go faster) from tanks who did not seem to realize (or care) that they should actually be, you know, tanking.

After enough instances of this, you kind of get the impression that most of them are just looking to play "DPS" but with the fast "tank" queue times. Would you tolerate healers who seemed to care more about throwing out Holy or whatever than they did about actually doing their job?

I don't know what to tell you other than you had shit tanks or weren't pressing quelling strikes.

God that's not a name I've typed in a long time.

As for healers DPSing, uh - yeah. Like 80% of your GCDs in everything but ultimate or Floor 3 savage fights are probably gonna be Broil 3. This is because of how predictable the damage in-take in FFXIV is, and how they've done nothing but provide us healers with OGCD healing tools that are obscenely powerful.

Addendum: They also took away a lot of DPS skills and gameplay complexity from healers because why not?

[Elkanah]

Honestly, I'm still not sure WHY we have tank stances anymore. I kind of thought that we'd just have them completely removed and just have our DPS combos. Since we're tanks with blue icons, I'd actually prefer if tank stance was gone completely and moved into the trait section and we just use shirk with secondary tanks as needed or necessary. But then again, this wouldn't work well with alliance raids and 6 tanks trying to e-peen their way to MT lol. So I'm not sure how this would work :/

[Zanarkand-Ronso]

Honestly, I'm still not sure WHY we have tank stances anymore.

At this point I think we can view the necessity as like "Who is the Main Tank"
Not sure about others, but Ive been in so many groups where people dont know who the MT is. So the Indicator is good to me to identify that.

[Tlamila]

But then again, this wouldn't work well with alliance raids and 6 tanks trying to e-peen their way to MT lol. So I'm not sure how this would work :/

Alliance raids have only 3 tanks nowadays, one per group. Still a constant aggro yo-yo though, yeah.

As for the topic, please no. As some others said, wannabe dpses with a blue icon wasn't fun at all for the rest of the party, especially as a healer. And it wasn't even just an aggro management matter, the tank stance also gave more defense or something, so the dps-stance-only tanks (who tbh were the same ones who use no or very few defensive cd) were also paper tank and a nightmare to keep alive.
And going back to using things like Flash, no thanks.

[Zanarkand-Ronso]

Holding aggro doesn't mean much anymore nowadays. I'd like to return to having both a tank stance or dps stance, and actually having to pay attention to the aggro list, instead of just popping tank stance and forgetting about it. What does everyone else think? Should we go back to a similar tanking system that Stormblood had?

When did holding aggro mean anything other then the Tank is doing their job?
I think personally its better that we have the Fire and Forget Tank stance of Shadowbringers, this way that Precious DPS that Tanks lost back in the day isn't lost and they dont need to Stance Dance. And then we dont need to worry about "Bad Tanks" not being able to hold aggro because DPSs are pulling more Aggro then the tank.
Its probly because I dont have a deep background in other MMOs, but I think its a silly concept to tell a DPS to Stop DPSing so the tank can get back their aggro. And I also think its kinda silly to expect DPS and Healers to have Aggroo mitigation and not give Tanks any additional Aggro Generation, so it makes it everyone elses job to do the Tanks job and hold aggro.
Its probably a personal take, but I think thats just a bad design concept.

[Fynlar]

I don't know what to tell you other than you had shit tanks

Yes, that was my point. Too many people in DF wanted to play them like they were DPS with tank queue times. Warriors were inexplicably especially guilty of this; it got to the point where I started to dread ending up with a WAR "tank" in roulette dungeons.

or weren't pressing quelling strikes.

Quelling Strikes wasn't available to every non-tank nor did it have a cd short enough to be available for every pull in a dungeon.

Additionally, I lost count of how many of these "DPS tanks" tried to tell me or others to "just pop quelling" or whatever after letting one of us die, instead of admitting their fault. Uhh, no, how about you stop being terrible at tanking, instead? Nobody cares about your max damage; any "remotely competent" DPS will be outdamaging you regardless.

As for healers DPSing, uh - yeah. Like 80% of your GCDs in everything but ultimate or Floor 3 savage fights are probably gonna be Broil 3. This is because of how predictable the damage in-take in FFXIV is, and how they've done nothing but provide us healers with OGCD healing tools that are obscenely powerful.

Except that wasn't what I asked. Let's try this again -- would you still be okay with that healer spamming Broil endlessly if it meant they didn't adequately perform their actual role, and let people die? Or would you be telling him to go as a DPS instead?

[Awha]

Yes, that was my point. Too many people in DF wanted to play them like they were DPS with tank queue times. Warriors were inexplicably especially guilty of this; it got to the point where I started to dread ending up with a WAR "tank" in roulette dungeons.

Quelling Strikes wasn't available to every non-tank nor did it have a cd short enough to be available for every pull in a dungeon.

Additionally, I lost count of how many of these "DPS tanks" tried to tell me or others to "just pop quelling" or whatever after letting one of us die, instead of admitting their fault. Uhh, no, how about you stop being terrible at tanking, instead? Nobody cares about your max damage; any "remotely competent" DPS will be outdamaging you regardless.

Except that wasn't what I asked. Let's try this again -- would you still be okay with that healer spamming Broil endlessly if it meant they didn't adequately perform their actual role, and let people die? Or would you be telling him to go as a DPS instead?

You are still saying we should not add threat management because of bad players. That seems silly.

[Claire_Pendragon]

SB threat was as useless as it was, because they gave us the shiney new Shirk ability, that ruined all need for threat control. (It also didnt help we had such a terrible Provoke system, and sorta still do, which is why we ended up with shirk as a bandaid fix. But dont get me wrong, shirk is a fun tool, but it ruined threat management.)
IMO, the 2nd cause for the loss of threat management, was the increase in DPS AoEs, and mass pulling, but this is a very distant second place issue. MMOs should only give AoE to very few scenarios, such as threat, and healing. Almost never in DPS. Otherwise you over simplify content, even with "complex AoE rotations".

[Mindiori]

Think you are onto a losing battle with anything that implies 'depth' or 'effort' anymore. Sorry to rain on the parade but the modern collective mmo community just can't handle the brain power. Instant gratification, speed and hollow meaningless rewards and participation prizes are the name of the game. If the Japanese forums are anything to go by, expect more pruning in future as apposed to less.

[Edax]

the modern mmo community just can't handle the brain power.

This is why no one likes listening to an elitist.