Can we please get aggro management back?

[Claire_Pendragon]

You say that, but I am currently living with someone who is utterly terrified of the tank role far more than either of the other two, because it means they have to take more of a "leader" role in dungeons, and they very easily get lost or turned around without other people to follow.

(This is just a side comment)
Unfortunately, no amount of fixing to tanks will change tanks running ahead of the group to pull, nor change a players ability to navigate a dungeon (in this case, a hallway)
They already tried making dungeons easy enough to run straight through, and players still get lost (yes i know a few too)

[Fluffernuff]

Indeed, claire. There's really alot of nuance to to the whole stance dancing argument, and has changed from patch to patch and expansion to expansion. Barring WAR, the stances have always been designed around mitigation+threat together. however, thats from the dev team's perspective. IN(at least) the NA community, it never really trended that way unless you were at the more high end, where the factors such as mitigation were more.... required.
That being said, the only real threat management that occured was from the *rest* of the party(Or the NIN), and not the tank itself. It wasn't an active part in a tank's gameplay. The only thing that changed without a stance was the occasional different combo; which only happened if you were undergeared, messed up, or in HW's case, a tank swap was coming.

On the specific topic I poked at; I dont really think wanting more interaction in your video game is wrong or misguided, I mostly just have/had an issue with a lie of omission to push a particular view.


as for the friend, tanking has had alot of it's background tedium removed over time, but I can definitely see why people are still terrified of picking it up. Tanking as a role is extremely frontloaded and starts out harder than it ends. And then you add in people treating an average to bad tank(which a complete newbie to the role will be) like refuse, and it's not a fun time. Overcoming a stereotype or stigma isnt always easy. and negative reinforcement can really lock in some bad feelings

[Claire_Pendragon]

Why do we keep bringing up WARs performance? Ive only been talking about playstyle. I keep thinking you guys misunderstand what I'm even suggesting. Every job has a job gauge, and in the case of tanks, WAR/DRK have a DPS buff to maintain, PLD has a DOT to maintain, and GNB mostly doesnt have to maintain anything, other than just use its strongest moves in its own dmg buff window. (Like WARs zerk window)
Now replace the gauge or maintained buffs with another stat (While keeping DPS the same), and they functionally act the same, even with the same playstyles they currently use.

KEEP THE PERFORMANCE EQUAL.

We all agree WAR was broken. No one disagrees with that, other than delusional people. The only argument was about popularity, to which was already not related to the point, as I mentioned the sole purpose of what I suggested was for the MINORITY of people, NOT the majority. And because it was for the minority of people, we would still need to keep most tanks like they are now, since the current tanks are for the majority of current players. (Secondary argument was how much work it would be to balance, to which my argument was built around a few issues, mostly "from the ground up" logic, rather than how to adjust the current jobs, which is reasonable to say is too much work.)

[basketofseals]

KEEP THE PERFORMANCE EQUAL.

The difference between tank jobs hasn't been significant since HW. Despite DRK being the worst tank for the entirety of an expansion, it still got world for for an ultimate fight.

Whatever issues tanks are having, performance is not one of them. No matter what, someone's going to be the "worst" by default, but that doesn't make the job bad.

[Claire_Pendragon]

The difference between tank jobs hasn't been significant since HW.

did you mean to quote me? i dont really understand why you're telling me this.

[basketofseals]

did you mean to quote me? i dont really understand why you're telling me this.

Because for some reason I cannot tell the difference between "was" and "is." My bad.

[Claire_Pendragon]

Because for some reason I cannot tell the difference between "was" and "is." My bad.

Im still confused, but np lol.

[Khalithar]

I wanted them to get rid of tank stances entirely, what we got is the next best thing.

Aggro management is better this way and it let's us tanks focus more on the boss. I hated stance dancing when I was doing SB savages and for the longest time I wished I didn't have to choose between aggro and extra damage and now I don't. I don't need to waste a GCD swapping back if the dps are close which in turn stops me from delaying or interrupting my rotation. I think this was a change for the better and I welcomed it.

[Thayos]

If you're old enough to have played FFXI, then you'll agree with me here...

The issue was never that "stance dancing" was fun or interesting. The issue is that this game makes it impossible for DPS to rip hate away from tanks as long as the tanks are using baseline tanking abilities.

In FFXI, yes, good tanks mattered -- but agro management was often less about the tank and more about the DPS riding the line between "elite" and "stupid." That was the balance, and that's what made it fun! A good tank allowed more DPS, but really agro management came down to DPS being smart and not just mashing buttons.

This game simply doesn't have that and I've lost faith that it ever will.

[NanaWiloh]

If you're old enough to have played FFXI, then you'll agree with me here...

The issue was never that "stance dancing" was fun or interesting. The issue is that this game makes it impossible for DPS to rip hate away from tanks as long as the tanks are using baseline tanking abilities.

In FFXI, yes, good tanks mattered -- but agro management was often less about the tank and more about the DPS riding the line between "elite" and "stupid." That was the balance, and that's what made it fun! A good tank allowed more DPS, but really agro management came down to DPS being smart and not just mashing buttons.

This game simply doesn't have that and I've lost faith that it ever will.

Thats the issue people have with the old system though. Its the job of the tank to hold and maintain threat, the old system just passed the job off to someone else. The current system problem is that it gives too much Enmity it needs to be reduced to a point that tank have to intergrate Enmity abilities in to their dps rotations. Rather then one and done with threat abilites like the old days and now, you would have to work to maintain enmity throughout a fight. While still mitigating damage and dps'ing.