Can we please get aggro management back?

[Melichoir]

"Aggro management"?

You mean letting the healers and DPS die, and then yell at them for not using their tools (even when they do) because you can't be bothered to do an extra aggro combo, right? That aggro management?

You can have aggro management back when it is solely a tank responsibility, and the optimal play for tank DPS becomes walking the line of losing aggro. Anything else is just gonna result in the same mess we had in SB, with people not geared/skilled enough blaming everyone but themselves. No thanks. Tanks can be diva enough as it is without the additional mess of "MUH DPS".

I can accomplish letting healers and DPS die by angling hte boss damage skills into the dps and yelling at them to adjust.

I can do the same thing by simply not using AoEs in pack pulls beyond the first and then saying "Why are you getting aggro attacking the other targets."

And btw, there are cases I have seen where you have some dumb DPS decide to blow their CDs and max single target damage a mob in a large pull, grab aggro, get killed, and blame me or the healer for their death when everyone else is doing AoE. Even with the current changes to tank stance, you can still lose aggro to a DPS if theyre going ham single target vs your AoE spam.

Nah, giving aggro dumps to the DPS and Healers would be good, not bad. It gives options to them for raid/savage environments to come up with solutions for aggro IF you were to alter how threat works. In regular content, modifying tank stance in a way like I suggested would resolve the issue pretty thoroughly. It's a number's tweaking game the devs would have to play - Done right you wont have to use your aggro dump in regular dungeon play with a tank who manages their tank stance decently. That and itd be infinitely more fun to play as a tank.

But realistically, my cynicism leads me to believe that itll be the opposite - tank role complexity will be reduced even further cause "tanking to hard, make it easier". Might as well simplify CD usage, get rid of tank stance by making it passive and giving all abilities just absurd amounts of threat, and make voke on a short CD that gives you a sizeable threat boost over the top threat target so you can tank swap if need be.

[Videra]

"Aggro management"?

You mean letting the healers and DPS die, and then yell at them for not using their tools (even when they do) because you can't be bothered to do an extra aggro combo, right? That aggro management?

You can have aggro management back when it is solely a tank responsibility, and the optimal play for tank DPS becomes walking the line of losing aggro. Anything else is just gonna result in the same mess we had in SB, with people not geared/skilled enough blaming everyone but themselves. No thanks. Tanks can be diva enough as it is without the additional mess of "MUH DPS".

Has bad tanks and gets salty about a playstyle that was at the time objectively superior because some people were too stupid to remember they occasionally had to use Butcher's Block.

:Think:

Sorry you had bad experiences with bad tanks, but the majority of actually good tanks never let healers or DPS die. And it was perfectly fine that 'Aggro management' was a three-way street, as it should be, if it exists.

[Ramura_Sono]

Has bad tanks and gets salty about a playstyle that was at the time objectively superior because some people were too stupid to remember they occasionally had to use Butcher's Block.

:Think:

Sorry you had bad experiences with bad tanks, but the majority of actually good tanks never let healers or DPS die. And it was perfectly fine that 'Aggro management' was a three-way street, as it should be, if it exists.

No. It was a problem because it was a source of optimization in savage/EX that leaked down to normal modes, endgame dungeons and even into leveling content. And people who understandably weren't used to dealing with "muh dps" tanks in this kind of content were repeatedly blamed, because heaven forbid a tank put tank stance on or use an extra aggro combo.

The "bad" tanks existed because "good" tanks continually told those with inexperience in the role to "drop tank stance" regardless of any other factors.
The expectation of "optimal play" that tanks had on everyone in all content was the problem. If it had remained an optimization in content where such was truly relevant no one would have an issue.

[Fynlar]

"Aggro management"?

You mean letting the healers and DPS die, and then yell at them for not using their tools (even when they do) because you can't be bothered to do an extra aggro combo, right? That aggro management?

You can have aggro management back when it is solely a tank responsibility, and the optimal play for tank DPS becomes walking the line of losing aggro. Anything else is just gonna result in the same mess we had in SB, with people not geared/skilled enough blaming everyone but themselves. No thanks. Tanks can be diva enough as it is without the additional mess of "MUH DPS".

I know your profile says miner, but I swear if you could share my pain any better than that it would start saying dark knight instead.

[RitsukoSonoda]

At this point they've been essentially dumbing the game down to appease that noisy minority of people that refuse to get good and expect everyone else to just cover for them.

IMO I'd say first step is to stop nerfing things just because a small amount of the playerbase don't want to put any effort into getting better as a player and instead spend even more energy blowing up the forum with a new thread full of their tears every day. Then start bringing back mechanics and aspects you removed to appease those people so that the game in general involves a little more conscious thought and less brain on autopilot relying on muscle memory.

[Selova]

There was no aggro management lol. You used your aggro combo once and turned off tank stance and abused shirk for tank swaps. Anyone that claims that there was any kind of complexity with stance dancing to maintain aggro is not remembering things correctly.

[RyuSaarva]

There was no aggro management lol. You used your aggro combo once and turned off tank stance and abused shirk for tank swaps. Anyone that claims that there was any kind of complexity with stance dancing to maintain aggro is not remembering things correctly.

That would have been nice but nobody used any role skills and I saw ninja use smoke bomb once.

[Derby_Crash]

There was no aggro management lol. You used your aggro combo once and turned off tank stance and abused shirk for tank swaps. Anyone that claims that there was any kind of complexity with stance dancing to maintain aggro is not remembering things correctly.

I recall a specific thread back when Stormblood first released begging to remove the gauge penalty for stance dancing. So, yes, I do remember stance dancing, more so in dungeons than in raid content.

[Lersayil]

I recall a specific thread back when Stormblood first released begging to remove the gauge penalty for stance dancing. So, yes, I do remember stance dancing, more so in dungeons than in raid content.

It was a noob tax. Organized and competent people rarely had to deal with it. A few GCDs, switch it off, and hope people properly press oGCDs. Go down a bit on the casual scale however and you either awkwardly tried to dance between the stances, or just switched it on and ate the damage tax.

It was never complicated or fun in previous iterations.