Remove melee throw weapon abilities?

[Akiudo]

I think the fact that they do disrupt combo makes it a little more interesting as well as satisfying when you manage to finish a combo right before having to move away. It also give more value to the Skill Speed substat. I believe melee should still mostly be melee, they'd be half ranged if those throwing abilities didn't break combo and had a combo of themselves, it imo removes some of the charm of being a melee and I think you can expect an overall dps nerf to compensate for their ability to have no downtime at all without sacrificing anything.

while i'm pretty sure square would just let this slide as "quality of life" just like a lot of other things that on paper shouldn't raise the potential of a class which in practice totally do buff a class at pretty much all percentiles this isn't so much about "losing nothing"

if you can do 100% damage in melee range or 50-75% of your damage while away from the boss you would still allways want to be close to the boss to maximize damage, that would not be "sacrificing nothing". problem is right now the ranged attacks melees (and tanks) have to offer are so weak, oftentimes its better to simply do nothing than to even use your ranged attack which is okay i guess, but at least as far as raids go it indeed makes them pretty redundant.

[ForteNightshade]

I think the fact that they do disrupt combo makes it a little more interesting as well as satisfying when you manage to finish a combo right before having to move away. It also give more value to the Skill Speed substat. I believe melee should still mostly be melee, they'd be half ranged if those throwing abilities didn't break combo and had a combo of themselves, it imo removes some of the charm of being a melee and I think you can expect an overall dps nerf to compensate for their ability to have no downtime at all without sacrificing anything.

There is zero interest in Piercing Talon were it breaking your combo makes it functionally worthless. It takes four uses for Piercing Talon to beat Full Thrust. And that isn't including the damage lost for breaking your combo. This is why it's actually better for Dragoons to do literally nothing than ever touch Piercing Talon. Even in E8S, which is absolutely brutal for melee, Dragoon will resort to their AoE combo or just do nothing since combos last 15 seconds.

All that aside, why would any of the Melee need a nerf? Even if they buffed Piercing Talon to say, 300 potency. It's still a damage loss, thus something you'll avoid. Of course, I'm also in the camp Range DPS shouldn't be taxed nearly as much (or really, at all). So buff them and it's all a wash.

[SamRF]

There is zero interest in Piercing Talon were it breaking your combo makes it functionally worthless. It takes four uses for Piercing Talon to beat Full Thrust. And that isn't including the damage lost for breaking your combo. This is why it's actually better for Dragoons to do literally nothing than ever touch Piercing Talon. Even in E8S, which is absolutely brutal for melee, Dragoon will resort to their AoE combo or just do nothing since combos last 15 seconds.

All that aside, why would any of the Melee need a nerf? Even if they buffed Piercing Talon to say, 300 potency. It's still a damage loss, thus something you'll avoid. Of course, I'm also in the camp Range DPS shouldn't be taxed nearly as much (or really, at all). So buff them and it's all a wash.

Okay then maybe an exception can be made for DRG or maybe some middle ground, I haven't leveld DRG myself so I can't comment on that. I just like the fact that you want to finish a combo before running off and would rather have ranged attacks not be something you'll just be spamming on impulse every time you move away, no matter your position on the combo, but rather something that's disruptive to your main rotation and needs to be considered before using. Most of my melee experience is with tanks though so maybe my preference isn't all that relevant to this topic.

[Eliadil]

Okay then maybe an exception can be made for DRG or maybe some middle ground, I haven't leveld DRG myself so I can't comment on that. I just like the fact that you want to finish a combo before running off and would rather have ranged attacks not be something you'll just be spamming on impulse every time you move away, no matter your position on the combo, but rather something that's disruptive to your main rotation and needs to be considered before using. Most of my melee experience is with tanks though so maybe my preference isn't all that relevant to this topic.

I understand what you're saying, however, keep in mind that while the basic rotation of a tank usually consist of 123 combo or eventually 124 sometimes as well, for a melee like dragoon or samurai, breaking combos is the equivalent of having to restart your whole rotation, because it delays a 8+ GCD rotation. As a dragoon you have to make sure that you can keep your dot up at all time, as well as your damage buff. Your rotation consist of a 10GCD loop that you cannot break because you risk losing either the dot or the damage buff if you're really unlucky. So breaking a combo here just means restarting the 10 GCD combo from the beginning. As a samurai this gets even worse, because by breaking a combo you delay a Midare, which is mandatory to proc Tsubame, your 1min burst. You don't delay it by one GCD however, you delay it by a full Midare rotation (9GCD), which can be really detrimental once you begin to look at party raid buffs.

Monk doesn't have this issue, but it doesn't suffer as much as the other melees due to meditation, just like Ninja can maybe plan a ninjutsu to avoid an aoe. But for the other two, the question isn't even there. You can't use your ranged attack because it messes everything.
Tbh, I would be surprised to see an actual opportunity present itself more than three time in the whole expansion for both jobs, and I don't see the devs planning a fight and thinking "oh what if we put an aoe there, so the melee can avoid it AND use their ranged attack for once ?"

Ranged attack is a dps loss on melees anyway. But just making the option available would be better than not having it at all.

[Liam_Harper]

I think the fact that they do disrupt combo makes it a little more interesting as well as satisfying when you manage to finish a combo right before having to move away. It also give more value to the Skill Speed substat. I believe melee should still mostly be melee, they'd be half ranged if those throwing abilities didn't break combo and had a combo of themselves, it imo removes some of the charm of being a melee and I think you can expect an overall dps nerf to compensate for their ability to have no downtime at all without sacrificing anything.

You're being sarcastic right? Tell me you're just trolling...

[Kabooa]

You're being sarcastic right? Tell me you're just trolling...

The less conflict a kit has, the less interesting it is to make any choices within them.

Making something desirable to use is easy, but making it meaningful as well is where it gets difficult.

[Eliadil]

The less conflict a kit has, the less interesting it is to make any choices within them.

Making something desirable to use is easy, but making it meaningful as well is where it gets difficult.

I mean... The meaning and the goal is to prevent dps loss from forced downtime. I don't really see how you could do more meaningful than this.

[Ryaz]

I think the fact that they do disrupt combo makes it a little more interesting as well as satisfying when you manage to finish a combo right before having to move away. It also give more value to the Skill Speed substat. I believe melee should still mostly be melee, they'd be half ranged if those throwing abilities didn't break combo and had a combo of themselves, it imo removes some of the charm of being a melee and I think you can expect an overall dps nerf to compensate for their ability to have no downtime at all without sacrificing anything.

Melee wouldn't be half range if it didn't interrupt combos. Samurai has a ranged combo- Yaten > Enhanced Enpi, which I only use to avoid an AoE and to get enough Kenki to dash back in. It actually requires a little bit of skill to time it properly and keep max uptime. I don't use it if I know it'll interrupt a combo, though, as the loss of combo flow isn't worth a single 300 potency attack. It just gives us a nice tool to keep some uptime on the boss and raises the skill ceiling a bit.

[Kuroka]

Could we just settle for, lets say, every job shoud have its ranged and aoe skill around 22 or smt?

[SpeckledBurd]

I don't think there's a need to remove thrown skills, they have their own niche uses. I agree with the sentiment that they shouldn't break combos or at the very least that there should be instances where they don't break combos, such as Enhanced Enpi.

On the AOE topic, every DPS job should have at least one AOE skill by level 15 so they can enter Sastasha and use it to learn the proper place for AOE, and whatever their basic AOE loop is should be in place by level ~50. A gauge's AOE uses should be in play as soon as you get your gauge, or near where you get your gauge.

It's insane that Dragoon for example has it's second and third AOE steps at level 62 and 72 respectively. On top of Doomspike at 15 it should have Sonic Thrust at level 40 where it gets Doom Spike, the effect should be changed to "Refreshes Disembowel" and Coerthan Torment should be earned at level 54 with Blood of the Dragon.