Bard's Thematic Future

[MartaDemireux]

UPDATE 1: Please answer this 1 question poll on Reddit (up until May 16th, 2020) https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme...happen_to_brd/
UPDATE 2: The Poll Results are in! A Breakdown and more charts/graphs can be found on page 11.

In the recent digest, Yoshi said to continue to provide feedback on a thematic change to Bard. So, here I shall.

Bard songs buffing the group in SB was pretty rewarding. It was an added incentive and a goal for keeping songs up and rolling. I believe the Soul Voice gauge is supposed to carry that feeling over but falls flat in my opinion.

With the changes in SHB we see MCH as a pure DPS focused class, DNC as a high support focused class and BRD seems to be lost in the mix. I feel as though BRD should be a healthy middle option, maintaining their previous role of being a buffing job though not to the same degree as DNC.

Additionally, having more songs at their disposal would only be a boon. Moves like Straight Shot, Windbite, Venomous Bite, Quick Nock etc. could be turned into songs while under the effects of Ballad/Paeon/Minuet - similar to how DNC attacks turn into dance steps while not having the same dancing system (think of it more as ability glamours). Well-known FFXI songs could reappear such as Carnage Elegy and Foe's Requiem to replace the DoT animations, for example.

It would also be really neat to see a system where we play notes, akin to the actual DNC step system, but without stepping on DNCs gameplay. I love DNCs steps and dancing system but that should stay on DNC. But a big part to music and being a Bard is proper note playing. Perhaps bow attacks could correspond to notes, and every time you play a sequence of 3 different notes you increase the party buff that Ballad/Minuet/Paeon provide - up to a limit - to make it feel more rewarding to use multiple bow abilities and limit Burst/Heavy spam.

Tl;dr: We need more songs (even if just glamours during current song stances) and more party buffing (but still less than DNC) to feel more like a BRD.

How do you all want to see more songs/music added to BRD (or do you not want to see more songs)?

[Kabooa]

Make Bard a Defensive buffer.

Yeah, Foe Req is great, but giving them back singular and raid wide mitigation options has value too.

Bring back Palisade as a unique utility. Add a healing component to Apex Arrow (and extend the Soul gauge to give some flexibility in its use). Have Battle Voice (in addition to current effect) cause all the Bard's supportive stuff like Paen, Minne, and others (like Palisade) extend to all nearby allies.

Add some shot modifiers that enhance the next shot with bonus supporting properties.

[SaitoHikari]

I've been kicking around an idea revolving around Warden's Paean.

As Warden's Paean currently is, it's useless in 95% of content due to a lack of debuffs that it can cleanse. This lack of engagement with it results in most Bards not learning how to use it at all, even for the few situations where it can prevent a death (Hashmal's dash in Rabanastre and Orbonne being the most notable examples).

I think Warden's Paean should keep its current effect, but have another added depending on your current active song.

- Warden's Paean (Mage's Ballad): Additional effect of providing a 500 potency HP restoration when their HP reaches 40% or less. Effect lasts for 30 seconds or until activated. (Would have synergy with Nature's Minne.)
- Warden's Paean (Army's Paeon): Provides a barrier that absorbs damage up to 10% of the target's maximum HP. Effect lasts for 30 seconds or until barrier is broken.
- Warden's Paean (Wanderer's Minuet): The target takes 5% less damage from all attacks for the next 10 seconds.

(The effects seem relatively low-ish because I'd assume that Warden's Paean would retain its current 45 second cooldown.)

[Kabooa]

I think Warden's Paean should keep its current effect, but have another added depending on your current active song.

If songs are a central component of the Bard's rotation, its utility should really be usable separate from that. However, we can solve that with adding a neat little OGCD for them that lets their utility morph while also retaining on demand use.

Remember kids, utility that can't be used on demand is effectively just an old Bole Card.

"Harmonic Arrow"
Ability
Effect: On first use, Harmonic Arrow ends the current song and retains it. On second use, Harmonic arrow deals damage and grants the Bard's other abilities any applicable bonus effects from the stored song for 6 seconds.

[SaitoHikari]

My suggestion was more about re-purposing an old skill to encourage greater use of it more than anything else, really.

You could more or less solve the issue without creating a new skill by reducing Warden's Paean cooldown to 30 seconds (essentially making it usable once per song), but that'd probably make it broken. Of course, you still won't get specific effects on demand, but all three effects are similar enough in theory, just with slight advantages in different situations.

[Atamis]

Just want to say I like the current bard as a starting point for a Ranger/Sniper job.
So go ahead and make bard an actual bard, but those of us who actually want to play Archer are in a rather good spot right now, minus the tacked on song aspect.

[Connor]

As everyone else has said better than me the current is very well designed for an Archer/Ranger type job, but it’s missing that ‘spark’ from before that made it feel more like a Bard than Ranger.

I really like the idea of Bard being defensive oriented in what skills it brings, it fits really nicely with the lore and how the job is kinda ‘sold, plus it doesn’t take away from the support that a Dancer brings which is more focused on offense. While I’d love to see Foe Requiem to return, I wouldn’t imagine them making more offense songs besides Requiem since that’s not really what they’ve been about. Not to say that there couldn’t be like, a haste song, but i don’t think that kind of utility should be the main focus since they want to to be Dancer’s thing.

Mechanically speaking, Id love to see future ‘support’ songs be in the style of Foe Requiem with a cast time (1.5s) and MP (Soul Gauge?) drain. I feel like it’s a good way for them to let us have interesting skills but still keep it balanced by mp cost and the DPS loss from casting. That’s just personal preference though; going by the majority I believe any future ‘support songs’ will be in style of Minne/Paean, instant use with a cooldown. Which, I get, but I feel like the original style gave you a bit more freedom on when you’d want to use it. And it wouldn’t be hard for them to stick an MP Recovery effect on something like Empyreal Arrow or Bloodletter then you’d be able to manage how/when you used them.

My favourite part of being a Bard before now was when things were getting tough for the party and there was nothing more your damage could do. Singing could help pull your party back from that brink, but at the same time couldn’t do anything for you alone. You weren’t able to physically heal the party, but with your songs you could help the healer to push out those extra heals and raises, keep the DPS going on their AoE skills, strengthen their attacks to take down powerful foes (by weakening the enemy, I know lol). It was in those moments that I really felt ‘so this is what Jehantel was talking about’ lol.

I mean, the whole point of the Bard quests is largely trying to convince the God’s Quiver the military value of songs. No matter how well it’s performed, the songs are granted power from the fervent desire to protect one’s comrades. If that desire doesn’t ring true in the heart of the singer, their songs will be empty.

By level 80, it seems that the trainee Bards have begun to grasp this. But I can’t help but wonder, when did my own character lose the desire to protect their comrades? Why have my songs become hollow? It’s like the very thing the Bard quests warned us about has happened to us

(P.S: apologies for such a long post lol, I genuinely thought to myself ‘I should try and keep it short’ when I started writing)

[Beddict]

As Warden's Paean currently is, it's useless in 95% of content due to a lack of debuffs that it can cleanse. This lack of engagement with it results in most Bards not learning how to use it at all, even for the few situations where it can prevent a death (Hashmal's dash in Rabanastre and Orbonne being the most notable examples).

I think Warden's Paean should keep its current effect, but have another added depending on your current active song.

- Warden's Paean (Mage's Ballad): Additional effect of providing a 500 potency HP restoration when their HP reaches 40% or less. Effect lasts for 30 seconds or until activated. (Would have synergy with Nature's Minne.)
- Warden's Paean (Army's Paeon): Provides a barrier that absorbs damage up to 10% of the target's maximum HP. Effect lasts for 30 seconds or until barrier is broken.
- Warden's Paean (Wanderer's Minuet): The target takes 5% less damage from all attacks for the next 10 seconds.

Turning Warden's into a mini-Excog is something I would love to see, or a mini-Adlo. Either of the two fits with the idea of Bard being a defensive buffer as mentioned elsewhere in the thread. Would be nice to get Palisade back as well but maybe that's wishful thinking.

Mechanically speaking, Id love to see future ‘support’ songs be in the style of Foe Requiem with a cast time (1.5s) and MP (Soul Gauge?) drain.

The cast time is largely why they got rid of it, because players felt it was clunky and disrupted the flow of the Job. Couldn't stop to cast it in WM or MB because we'd likely waste procs, and casting it in AP was still a DPS loss, a problem that would be even bigger now that Burst Shot is a thing and Refulgent Arrow got buffed. Still, I would like to see Foe Requiem back, just make it an instant oGCD. Giving us back some utility will bring us more inline with our Job lore which I think is incredibly important, and more offensive utility is just nice in general.

[official_coconut]

Stormblood bard seemed to be in a good place but now that bards just sing to themselves...may as well call that a ranger. I would like for them to have buffs or a stance where they sing instead of shooting arrows while giving the same effects as a Stormblood song. Perhaps their arrow skills could transform like how Summoner's do during their trance and become more music themed.

[ty_taurus]

Honestly, I believe it was a mistake to melt the concept of a Bard with the Archer. These are two iconic RPG roles that have roots as deep as the origin of the genre itself, and they have very little in common. What we have is a job where the two identities are battling each other for control of the job. This isn't really fair to the players who want to be a bow and arrow master or the players who want to be a battle musician.

What I would seriously recommend if I were a part of the company would be a plan for 6.0, or maybe 5.5, but probably 6.0.

Step 1: Add the new job of Ranger which would take the place of Bard as the job ascension of Archer. The play style would largely stay the same with all the songs being completely removed from the ability list and would be replaced with heavier bow themed abilities.

Step 2: Convert the Bard identity we have into a new job slot available at level 30. The job quests stay the same for the most part, but is no longer associated with the Archer. Now, their weapon will be Harps while also using other instruments like how the machinist includes other machines in their actions. Sometimes you'll be playing the flute, other times strumming a guitar, and perhaps a few others. This could be designed as a foil to Dancer as another high support ranged DPS. Essentially, having both should feel like it currently feels to have dupes of Dancer: not ideal, but workable. Neither should feel like a requirement.

Essentially, Ranger is just a renamed Bard with a few reworked abilities and an all-new job quest line.

Bard is functionally a brand new job with an entirely different set of abilities, but uses the current job quest line.