Time is Running Out for the Ascian's Plan?

[Iscah]

Due to the timescale of the Shards, it makes it hard to tell when the flood of light started from our perspective. For the First that was a 100 years ago but for the Source... it really is not clear nor do we know how long it takes for the Asicans to start these processes on the shards.

Actually we have a pretty exact time point for that: it was happening when the Warriors were brought to the Source, and Minfilia travelled there to stop the Flood.

[Kuroka]

That is a quite interesting question though, the flood did already start when they came over? or was close to it? it seems when they came to our world, barely any time passed as they "vanished" a 100-whatever years before we arrive at the first, shortly before the flood came. Yet the tower should have arrived around the same time? or was he much later? (i gotta re read some stuff...)

[Iscah]

That is a quite interesting question though, the flood did already start when they came over? or was close to it? it seems when they came to our world, barely any time passed as they "vanished" a 100-whatever years before we arrive at the first, shortly before the flood came. Yet the tower should have arrived around the same time? or was he much later? (i gotta re read some stuff...)

The timeline for the flood itself (from the perspective of the First) seems a bit vague as to how quickly it happened, though it definitely seems likely that moving to the Source bought them some time if they could spend weeks there while only a fraction of the time passed for the First. It must have been on the brink of happening, because that was the point of Elidibus's plan, or at least what he told them of it: that there was an urgent need to rejoin the First before the flood ruined it.

According to Moren, the tower appeared "less than a decade" after the flood. That doesn't really figure into any other timeline stuff though - he's coming from the far future, so it's only a matter of how far back he travelled and where he landed.

[Kuroka]

Hmm... ofc the perfect timing on stuff lol. It still bothers me rly a lot how his plan was, he did not plan to end up 100 years in the past, but, if hed come right now, merly days before the flood, without the Crystarium and still not rly knowing how to even get us there... idk how THAT would have went xD

Also we dont know what became of Emet - we might have killed Elidibus, or Zenos did, who knows how that originally went down, we only know we did not fall there. I wonder i he fell at the first, not expecting the flood to be this powerfull - or, did he not even wake up in that timeline, or, was he even involved in G'rahas plan without anyone realizing it? (i hope not as i'd cheapen their archivment....) Sure maybe they caused the flood and went to play a round "meanwhile at the shards" but sooner or later they should have noticed smt is up, especially after the tower made poof...


Ahhh the gabs there and the not fully consistend information drives me crazy X_X

[Edax]

Lately I've been hearing a lot of talk that the Ascians seem to be trying to push their plan for the remaining Calamities to happen as soon as possible and I remember reading from quite a few people that Lahabrea stated that they had to move their plan forward. They say that, for some reason, the Ascians feel like time is running out for them to get the remaining calamities. Where does that say and why would be the reason the Ascians feel that they're 'running out of time'? Is it because there are so few of them left?

Any thoughts?

From a meta sense, the Ascians have to act during the WoL's lifetime else the story won't get told. That is unless the writer introduce some kind of major timeskip.

[Iscah]

Hmm... ofc the perfect timing on stuff lol. It still bothers me rly a lot how his plan was, he did not plan to end up 100 years in the past, but, if hed come right now, merly days before the flood, without the Crystarium and still not rly knowing how to even get us there... idk how THAT would have went xD

I've been pondering this for a while - somewhere between theorising and drafting fanfic that'll probably never be written, but I assume the original plan was a lot simpler. Warp the tower to the First, then summon the WoL and play the part of the "mysterious wizard from another world" who has always lived there in his crystal tower. (Oh, there's a matching one where you came from? How interesting.) Guide the WoL to defeat the Lightwardens, do his betrayal-and-warp-to-the-void act, his death undoes the summoning and returns the WoL to their own world. The worlds are saved, the villainous Exarch is undone by his own actions, and the WoL never learns his true identity.

Of course it's nowhere near that simple, and as soon as G'raha lands in the First and the people come to the tower seeking aid, he couldn't possibly turn them away. So the years pass as he nervously watches events in the Source play out in slow motion and wonders how long it will be until he reaches the right point in time...

And then he goes and accidentally pulls the Scions to the First, so now instead of being alone, the WoL is going to have friends who will undoubtably try to interfere when the Exarch does his villain act. And thus Urianger gets roped in as secret-keeper.

Could the plan have worked with the WoL alone, and G'raha only recently arrived to the First himself? Perhaps he wasn't expecting such a thriving world, or simply that it would be much closer to the chaos immediately following the halted Flood.

But as for the timing, assuming that he thought he only needed a short time to prepare, then he arrived just a few months prior to the necessary point as calculated by the Source's flow of time. If the relative speed fluctuates between the two, he might have to act quickly once he got there, so he'd want some leeway with it... and instead that leeway turned out to be decades.

(Imagine what that would have been like... watching things play out in slow motion all those years, never sure if the flow of time might suddenly speed up and he'd miss the critical moment.)

Also we dont know what became of Emet - we might have killed Elidibus, or Zenos did, who knows how that originally went down, we only know we did not fall there. I wonder i he fell at the first, not expecting the flood to be this powerfull - or, did he not even wake up in that timeline, or, was he even involved in G'rahas plan without anyone realizing it? (i hope not as i'd cheapen their archivment....) Sure maybe they caused the flood and went to play a round "meanwhile at the shards" but sooner or later they should have noticed smt is up, especially after the tower made poof...

What happened to Emet in the other timeline, you mean?

He certainly would have been active - remember he had to come back into action because of Lahabrea's failure back in Heavensward. Elidibus would have needed to call on him in either case, even if you're of the theory that the timelines diverged as soon as G'raha and the tower arrived in the First.

The only way I could see him being "involved in G'raha's plan" would involve him finding out about how the time travel mechanism works, and I think that would be too catastrophic on a larger scale in other ways.

Though I was toying with the idea that if the split in the timelines didn't happen until right at the end of Shadowbringers - hinging on whether we defeated Hades or not - then in the other timeline the WoL's death might just bring G'raha to the point that he spills the whole thing to Emet in anger and "do you realise what you've just done?" and... I'm not sure where things would go from there, but certainly in the short term it would be in Emet's best interests to work together for at least long enough to get G'raha out of the First alive, and possibly make sure that the Ironworks and younger-G'raha do manage to pull off their time-travel venture so the other timeline can be saved, even if this one is ruined and the Ascians' plan can't be fulfilled either.

Of course, as much as I would love to be idealistic and think that Emet would have a change of heart... I greatly doubt it. Most likely he'll play along until he can swipe the time machine and go back to Amaurot to halt the Final Days. And that probably isn't the outcome we're looking for.

Most idealistic thought though: using the tower to return to the point in time that G'raha left from, for a reunion with the friends he had to leave behind there, and just maybe they can find a resolution for healing the world from Black Rose. Perhaps if Hades made an early escape and G'raha made it back to the tower alone...?

[Gojin]

ascians are done we are beat their like strongest one ever its over. next threat please ascians are cancelled.

[Gojin]

if they pull a DBZ cell time machine thing with Emet Im unsubbing

[Kuroka]

Guide the WoL to defeat the Lightwardens, do his betrayal-and-warp-to-the-void act, his death undoes the summoning and returns the WoL to their own world.

Yes but how? The first is gone, no one could ever have learned of the light wardens, even the different flow in time should have been a suprise, or at least they would have no way to track down a exact moment, as its pace was random...

I get it was the last desperate act to save a doomed world, but still... quite risky. Ofc we could argue they failed many times and the loop kept on till they hit the right time lol

And then he goes and accidentally pulls the Scions to the First, so now instead of being alone, the WoL is going to have friends who will undoubtably try to interfere when the Exarch does his villain act.

Somethin i cant get into my head either... he needed his device to actually grab us, it was the bridge he needed. ok. so... why dont we let our friends bodies touch it and summen them over, thus giving em the ability to just port forward and back? Even Thancred should be able to use that mirror gate at Grahas room, right?

I get we need a story to happen but it feels like they're making it overly complicated - heck he summoned 7 other warriors against hades, yet cant grab our firends? It should be even easier with them helping him...


Also, imagine without him as a peacefull force, I do wonder what mess Eulmore would have made. Sure we wouldnt push em, but still...

But as for the timing, assuming that he thought he only needed a short time to prepare, then he arrived just a few months prior to the necessary point as calculated by the Source's flow of time.

Most likely we really can settle for, they had 0 clue about the weird flow of time and he was lucky that it was still close, not 1000 years too early.

(Imagine what that would have been like... watching things play out in slow motion all those years, never sure if the flow of time might suddenly speed up and he'd miss the critical moment.)

Now imagine how it has been for the Ascians, after much more time... who knows how much time passed when they were at some shard. Its easy to see why Emet was that melancholic...

Elidibus would have needed to call on him in either case, even if you're of the theory that the timelines diverged as soon as G'raha and the tower arrived in the First.

To us it surely started to change the moment we started having his calls. To the first... it sure instandly changed things, for 100 years less deaths and a force against the chaos, lots of wisdom that didnt get lost, either... it might have bought some days or weeks before the flood, just from slowing down lord fatty... ofc we cant tell, but still.

The only way I could see him being "involved in G'raha's plan" would involve him finding out about how the time travel mechanism works, and I think that would be too catastrophic on a larger scale in other ways.

I just cant unhear what he said, how he was involved in building that tower... from all ppl, he might be able to hide even from G'raha, being in that tower all along waiting for his moment. Yes it would be too cheap but still, part of me just wants him around lol.
And i wanna know more about the time travel, see more of the tower... ik that wont happen but still >_>

but certainly in the short term it would be in Emet's best interests to work together for at least long enough to get G'raha out of the First alive, and possibly make sure that the Ironworks and younger-G'raha do manage to pull off their time-travel venture so the other timeline can be saved

As already said, we might have had severaly loops already.

Most likely he'll play along until he can swipe the time machine and go back to Amaurot to halt the Final Days.

Im not sure IF he would be able too... they most likely would still need Zodiak for it. Yet we also dont know what caused it. Maybe the flood of light might have changed him, realizing their plan wont work out, or being impressed after see us mortals do such a long term plan, while suffering such hard conditions - we did have the foreshowing that his heart can be reached, as he saved Y'stola for us (even if it might bit his butt) and from the story about his son...

I wonder if we see an RP battle within the future... I guess not and it'll be a bunch of unused chances... *sigh*

[TheMightyMollusk]

I get we need a story to happen but it feels like they're making it overly complicated - heck he summoned 7 other warriors against hades, yet cant grab our firends? It should be even easier with them helping him...

To be fair, Hades was long after he summoned the WoL physically, so we can assume he got the hang of it by then.