Geomancer

[BasicBlake]

And I disagree. Plain and simple. Again, if Geomancer is so similar to White Mage that they can't function in the same role then it shouldn't be added. I, personally, don't think they are. But if you're adamant that's the case the only reasonable answer left is not to add it. No other job in this game currently would be too similar to another even if they shared a role.

As well I feel like you don't realize that almost every job, healers included, use different aethers. If you're saying another job using wind, water, and earth isn't good then Scholar wouldn't have been added, because it has spells that use wind aether, water aether, and earth aether. You can tell by the color of the spell casting.

Edit: There is actually an important thing you said, and how it ties into job fantasy. Using what you're saying, Eastern is a category of Job Fantasy. Personally I wouldn't agree, but as you're using the devs words on the matter as an example of it then it's the only reasonable conclusion. We have three Eastern Melee DPS. If that's an example of job fantasy then the only issue would be adding jobs one after the other. So even if they still consider White Mage to be a nature job (which is very arguable) then it's moot because White Mage was an at launch job and so there isn't remotely too much overlap in terms of time frame.

I don't know if i would consider the phrase "if it can't be added into a role it's never been before and not be too similar to something else it shouldn't be added" to be that valid. Just put it somewhere else... The argument is Qi of Water/Wind/Stone and Malediction of Water/Wind/Stone being too similar to Wind/Stone for white mage I personally think is a very valid reason to not have it be a cohealer with white mage honestly. It would be like adding Sage or Devout or whatever that class is called in the offshoot tactics games as a healer.

This is going to come off really weird but bear with me, or adding Mystic Knight/Rune Fencer as a caster. You would now have two classes enchanting a blade with magic in the same role. You'll argue and say "But why would mystic knight be a caster?" which would be countered with "Geomancer has never been a healer" so the argument is valid. Geomancer and white mage both healing would be like red mage and mystic knight/rune fencer both being in the caster role. They are both great classes and it would be great to have them all in game, just not stepping on eachother's toes.

The argument with Monk/Samurai/Ninja would be closer if all three of them had multiple of the same abilities but just a different name.

As for one of the Far Eastern melee, wasn’t Samurai considered for tank at one point? Not in a “dancer healer” aspect but ACTUALLY considered but it never ended up as a tank because it didn’t fit the class and it’s role?

[MirronTulaxia]

Snap.

1. Okay? And I would consider it valid. A job should be able to stand on its own two legs, regardless of role.

2. Stone/Wind are effectively removed from White Mage at the highest level. That may be more than enough to not overlap.

3. Or like adding Scholar? Which is the same basic job as Sage just less efficient?

4. Mystic Knight could be a Caster, I still wouldn't call it the same thing as Red Mage. Rune Fencer and Red Mage could both tank in XI and they weren't the same job after all.

5. I can actually point to specific healing moves from Geomancer. Can you point to any spell casting moves from Mystic Knight? If you can't then it isn't equivalent.

6. The argument with Monk/Samurai/Ninja isn't one I made, it's one your side made. It's supposed to be a reference to how the developers treat "job fantasies". If it is then it clearly doesn't work the way you're all implying. And if it's not then it's an entirely pointless addition to the discussion. And currently White Mage and Geomancer have zero abilities that are the same but with a different name.

7. As far as Samurai as a tank goes from what I recall it was less "it couldn't be a tank" and more "Yoshida didn't want it to be one", which is a very important distinction.

[BasicBlake]

1. Okay? And I would consider it valid. A job should be able to stand on its own two legs, regardless of role.

2. Stone/Wind are effectively removed from White Mage at the highest level. That may be more than enough to not overlap.

3. Or like adding Scholar? Which is the same basic job as Sage just less efficient?

4. Mystic Knight could be a Caster, I still wouldn't call it the same thing as Red Mage. Rune Fencer and Red Mage could both tank in XI and they weren't the same job after all.

5. I can actually point to specific healing moves from Geomancer. Can you point to any spell casting moves from Mystic Knight? If you can't then it isn't equivalent.

6. The argument with Monk/Samurai/Ninja isn't one I made, it's one your side made. It's supposed to be a reference to how the developers treat "job fantasies". If it is then it clearly doesn't work the way you're all implying. And if it's not then it's an entirely pointless addition to the discussion. And currently White Mage and Geomancer have zero abilities that are the same but with a different name.

7. As far as Samurai as a tank goes from what I recall it was less "it couldn't be a tank" and more "Yoshida didn't want it to be one", which is a very important distinction.

A class having a heal doesn’t make it a healer though. It has never been a “healer”. Mog’s dance isn’t enough to base a healing class around.

You can give Tifa nothing but Cure materia and we still wouldn’t have reason to make monk a healer.

Could Mystic Knight be a caster? It’s possible. I know your whole thing is about subjectivity and “anything can be anything”. But they won’t add Mystic Knight as a blade enchanting caster role in this game. Red Mage was a terrible tank in XI. Could Rune Fencer stand in the back line with the mages and effectively cast on the boss?

He didn’t want Samurai to be a tank, I wonder why.

[MirronTulaxia]

A class having a heal doesn’t make it a healer though. It has never been a “healer”. Mog’s dance isn’t enough to base a healing class around.

You can give Tifa nothing but Cure materia and we still wouldn’t have reason to make monk a healer.

Could Mystic Knight be a caster? It’s possible. I know your whole thing is about subjectivity and “anything can be anything”. But they won’t add Mystic Knight as a blade enchanting caster role in this game. Red Mage was a terrible tank in XI. Could Rune Fencer stand in the back line with the mages and effectively cast on the boss?

He didn’t want Samurai to be a tank, I wonder why.

1. No job has been a healer outside of White Mage though. Scholar certainly wasn't known for being one. You've suggested Time Mage as a healer, and the only heal it has to its name is Regen. You're just being hypocritical.

2. I mean, outside of Limits I wouldn't consider any job to be something. Though you raise a funny point in that Aerith certainly feels very much like a Geomancer, talking to the planet and such (was even her discussed job class).

3. You miss the point still. Rune Fencer being a Caster would still not be the same thing as a Red Mage. The "job fantasy" is different. You keep reducing jobs to extremely broad generalizations. And in terms of roles when it comes to DPS I don't really think anything should be anything. It's why I made the point about Dancer.

4. Given it was likely intended as a tank in FFXI, it's got precedence. Certainly not like Squall was tank like.

[BasicBlake]

Actually Mirron please don’t respond to what I wrote, we aren’t getting anywhere.