Geomancer

[Eric_Riot]

Hey All,

This is my first FFXIV game since 7, which btw I was super sad the re-release was not for PC .

Anyhow would the spell's be like this: FFXI Geomancer?. When I think Geomancer for some reason I think "Earthquake" & "Wall of Rocks" I don't think Water or Wind not that i'm against it. What FF version of Geomancer did you guys have in mind?

As to "Dancer" I was one of the ones that hoped that "Dancer" would be a "Healer" class, it would have been so cool to "Dance" you fellow's back to health.. but it ended up being just another ranged DPS *yawn*.

I do hope Geomancer is about earth AOE and AOE Healing that would be cool. Just not another range dps class.

Cheers

[BasicBlake]

Hey All,

This is my first FFXIV game since 7, which btw I was super sad the re-release was not for PC .

Anyhow would the spell's be like this: FFXI Geomancer?. When I think Geomancer for some reason I think "Earthquake" & "Wall of Rocks" I don't think Water or Wind not that i'm against it. What FF version of Geomancer did you guys have in mind?

As to "Dancer" I was one of the ones that hoped that "Dancer" would be a "Healer" class, it would have been so cool to "Dance" you fellow's back to health.. but it ended up being just another ranged DPS *yawn*.

I do hope Geomancer is about earth AOE and AOE Healing that would be cool. Just not another range dps class.

Cheers

I mean technically they could be like in 11! Their whole purpose there was support to allies and they got their own personal form of aoe elemental spells along with a gimmick that gave added benefits based on your compass position in relation to the target. As for water and wind, it’s not so much based on other games’ version of the class, in 14 they are masters of Wind, Water and Stone.

Dancer healer would have definitely been a new take and most likely interesting but ultimately probably a nightmare to balance in regards to who certain mechanics happen in raid situations. As for dancing your allies back to health, they have always been a supporting damage dealing class since the beginning so the chances of them coming in as a main heal were always very slim to zero. With Geomancers having even less healing capabilities than the already low dancer.

[Eric_Riot]

As for dancing your allies back to health, they have always been a supporting damage dealing class since the beginning so the chances of them coming in as a main heal were always very slim to zero. With Geomancers having even less healing capabilities than the already low dancer.

Yeah, I have no idea about lour, and I agree they should stick with lour. I just pictured dancers "Charming" enemy's while tossing heals around.

Well what ever they do I hope Geomancer is cool if they do got that way. I picture "Wall of Stone" blocking the enemy's off from you party.. followed by "Earthquake" that knocks them down.. then you put a "Root" on your allies to "shield" them but they can not move but also do not take damage. Then a wave of water slows the enemy but heal's your allies.. Just huge AOE stuff that looks cool and is useful.

I mean I have a White mage and she's good and all but it's pretty boring to spam her aoe stun over and over after you toss on your HoT's and then more aoe stun.. boring.

[BasicBlake]

Yeah, I have no idea about lour, and I agree they should stick with lour. I just pictured dancers "Charming" enemy's while tossing heals around.

Well what ever they do I hope Geomancer is cool if they do got that way. I picture "Wall of Stone" blocking the enemy's off from you party.. followed by "Earthquake" that knocks them down.. then you put a "Root" on your allies to "shield" them but they can not move but also do not take damage. Then a wave of water slows the enemy but heal's your allies.. Just huge AOE stuff that looks cool and is useful.

I mean I have a White mage and she's good and all but it's pretty boring to spam her aoe stun over and over after you toss on your HoT's and then more aoe stun.. boring.

Whatever healer ends up coming next is going to get the iconic one single target spell, a damage over time and one aoe spell just like the other three healers sadly.

Granted that could change in 6.0 if they overhaul healers!

[MirronTulaxia]

1. The knights in the Knights of the Round. Two of them don't do any healing moves.

2. What Dancer does varies from game to game. Do you want me to go through every iteration of Dancer and point out how it differs from another? Dancer is one of the most flexible of jobs. But for all its flexibility, it has never been a job that focused on being in the back of the line throwing chakrams.

3. As I've said, I don't see Conjurer and Geomancer as being similar to each other, at least any more so than any other DoM job. Summoners use Fire, Wind, and Earth, that's three element overlap with Red Mage, and the same role. Obviously you aren't going to say they're the same job, which clearly means that you can use elements in different ways, even in the same role, and have it work. The point I keep making is that you have a very subjective, personal opinion of what constitutes similar and what does not. And even if the devs agreed the changes to White Mage could very well be enough for them, even if they aren't enough for you.

You keep saying that I don't understand the opposing points, but I don't think you understand mine at all. The point, again, plainly and simply, is that how similar or not something is winds up being subjective. To you using the same elements in the same role is enough to say "too similar". To me, elements are the basest of possible things and are so fluid as to mean next to nothing (although as an aside Geomancers actually using water would be different from White Mages too, Fluid Aura is basically just fluff at this point, so I could just as easily argue White Mages only use Wind and Earth), to you they're basically the cornerstone of a job to hear you talk about it.

I thought I made it clear when I talked about job fantasy. Summoner and Scholar, same role, to me would not be the same job. They would not be too similar. To you it sounds like they wouldn't even be too similar but basically the same job. That's because to me, the job fantasy of what a Summoner is versus what a Scholar is are two very different things. The roles, the weapons, the elements. These don't define the job fantasy. You could have a White Mage that is Fire, Water, Earth, or a Black Mage that is Water, Wind, and Earth (both elemental combinations have appeared in other games) and I would still say they're the same job fantasy. The trappings, your role, your weapons, your elements, those may define the expression but what makes the job what it is doesn't change.

Penelo interesting is in fact a White Mage - Dancer hybrid her healing abilities come from her White Magick so not really Healer Dancer. Since none of the Dancer abilities heal iirc.

Her only listed job is Dancer. You can argue about what that means but it's the only listed one.

[BasicBlake]

space

You're right, I have to read what you write multiple times usually before I can attempt to respond.

1. Okay the 1 or 2 in there cannot heal. But not only that, Knights of the Round is technically an ability. Can you go through every conjurer in the game otherwise in dungeon or not and tell me what others cannot heal. I KNOW you are only saying it because I said if something is a class, they act like the class in dungeons. You're playing devils advocate. And feel free to list out every dancer as well since you said you would. I have a hard time believing you will find them as anything other than support. This isn't about them using chakrams this is about them being a support character. But then you will use your trademark "You say that is this, but I don't personally see it as that".

2. The devs don't care how you see the classes as similar or not. The lore book calls them similar, the game calls them similar. Because Mirron on the forums doesn't see them as similar doesn't erase the printed words. And of course red mage uses the same elements, they are a red mage. They have access to both white and black magic. Your argument would be better if red mage was summoning something. Which they aren't.

[MirronTulaxia]

Snip

1. I'm talking about the Minstrels Ballad version. Where you actually fight the knights. They don't do healing. And in terms of the only explicit Conjurers we have, Edda doesn't do healing either when you fight her. Feel free to point at explicitly Conjurers that do heal, but what I'm seeing there aren't any.

2. Devil's Advocate is arguing an opposing position even if you don't agree with it. You're misusing the term.

3. FFIV Dance casts random White Magic, so healer fits. FFV Dancers have Sword Dance (hit four times), Drain HP, Drain MP, Confuse, and Charm. Most of their moves are offensive in nature, and Sword Dance is at its most effective at an appropriate range, which in FFV is melee for them. FFVI Mog is mostly a Caster or Healer with his Dance skills, not a ranged DPS. FFX-2 Dancer doesn't do any sort of ranged DPS elements, focusing mostly on debuffs with a couple of buffs. XI Dancers have Waltzes for curing, and in terms of weapons again the only weapon they have of note is Daggers, so a melee job. FFXII Penelo has Dance of Rapture, which is a healing spell, not listed as just Curaga, so again a healing dance. Otherwise she has buffs and debuffs. FFT Dancer is a full on debuff the entire team thing, to me mostly reads as a Caster DPS. Again in terms of weapons they only have melee weapons. Dimensions Dancers having healing, debuffs, and straight damage, again being stuck at melee range.

I've gone through every instance of Dancer. Of them, FFIV, FFVI, FFXI, FFXII RW, FFD all have some degree of healing. None of the jobs have ranged physical capabilities (again, some of them have what can only be described as supernatural effects given how broad they are) though. I don't know why "Dancer could have been a healer, it wouldn't be out of the ordinary with past instances" is such a big deal. Oh, forgot TA2 Penelo. Who goes an entirely different route than her XII RW version (so ostensibly same job but completely different effects) with mostly caster-like dances and a strong melee hit/debuffs. Again, Dancers could very easily have been healers.

4. The devs don't care if I see them as similar or not, certainly. But the devs have yet to say anything on the matter. Lore book saying they're similar to Conjurers (not White Mages) is kind of irrelevant because the bulk of the game you play a White Mage, not a Conjurer, and they've changed how the jobs work, along with the fact that lore carries zero weight on anything.

5. You're shifting to something entirely aside from the point. The point was about job fantasy, something that the developers have said zero times. Job fantasy is not dictated by elements to me. That's why I cited White Mages who use Fire, Water, and Earth, while Black Mages use Wind, Earth, and Water. To hear you talk about it these represent entirely different job fantasies.

[SeikishiYuuki]

Her healing abilities are literally Cure and Curaga, she is called dancer but the dance part of her is buffing. Dancer is not actually that variant of a job within the series and has a pretty constant theme of Debuff the enemies occasionally some party side buffs though mostly only when mixed with Bard and White Mage. Dancers largest variance comes from XI where the job had a number abilities that functioned similar to other roles including heals and a provoke for tanking but even as the outlier its still got a decent focus on debuffing enemies. That is to say its not without variance, like Mog's GeoDancer hybrid or Penelo who is a dancer with access to white magic.

[BasicBlake]

On a less annoyed note, no one here is saying that it's set in stone.

A majority here says with healers having such a small amount of spots for dps spells along with class fantasy, there are better options for the healer slot.

[MirronTulaxia]

1. It wasn't a contradiction so much as an addition.

2. You don't seem to understand the point I was making then, because what I've been arguing against is, at least how I've read it, that Geomancer specifically will not be any role other than Caster. With regards to "it wouldn't be the first time" it can be used that way. I acknowledge it head on and still stand by that. That doesn't mean discussion is moot though. It just means that one path is covered, not that all possible branches of discussion are covered.

3. I'd need you to actually cite where I brought up Blue Mage to get an idea of what my point there was. Bringing something up out of context means you're probably not getting the point.

As an aside, generally my bullet points are based in the order in which I arrive at a thought as I'm reading through your post. Usually this means one per paragraph but sometimes you make multiple points in one paragraph that I want to comment on.