Endgame content is too stressfull and difficult

[Crushnight]

So, if SE wants to make things better in savage the first change would be to stop enforcing a particular kill order on the first three bosses. They should still require clearing all sub bosses to see Refulgence, or whatever, but that way people who get stuck in one place can try other fights. I\\'m betting if people had a choice, they\\'d be doing Ramuh and the Bird one first and leaving Furor as the last of the three.

Bad idea.

It would be the fight that only offers belt and accessories that would be done last as they offer the least benefits. So in this tier's case Ramuh would be last to be cleared of the 3 before Shiva. If you then randomise rewards it gets frustrating as some members would want a specific fight while others want a different one, this would create unnecessary discourse.

Next balance would be put on an even playing field with the 1st 3 fights since can pick whichever 1st they all need to be at the same level difficulty wise making a situation where the last fight could have an insane difficulty rise rather than what the developers are intending at the moment with a difficulty curve (sometimes works often fails XD but they try to make a curve) to try and show a natural progression of you need to get better as you go along.

Then you are throwing the people who like to go for World 1st under a bus (a subsection of a subsection of the community) since they have to decide quickly what order they will try to learn and clear them all, leading to strategies being leaked all over, the people who want to watch are looking all over the place splitting viewership up even more, and any tension is removed until people are on the last fight because who knows the 2nd/3rd one could be easier than the 1st.


The current model is not broken stop trying to break it to suit how you want it to be.

Know what i'd like to see happen for one tier is if a mechanic from the 1st fight appears in the 2nd on top of what the 2nd offers then the 3rd fight has stuff from the 1st and 2nd with the last fight having stuff from each of them being the ultimate test of the entire tier. A mechanically evolution as you progress but I understand this would get stale if happened every tier so just 1 tier that evolves as you do be good for me.

[Insertusernamehere]

You are right: "If you wasn't lucky to find a group at the beginning of the content - you're pretty much out of it for good." which is true.
If you play early days of expansion you can find a static team and you can learn together and clear ex / savage with them. But if you missed opportunity "you're pretty much out of it for good."
Savage gear not necessary if you are not going to press on savage content further. Basic dungeons offers no challenge and can be done with enough iLvL.

[Colt47]

Bad idea.

It would be the fight that only offers belt and accessories that would be done last as they offer the least benefits. So in this tier's case Ramuh would be last to be cleared of the 3 before Shiva. If you then randomise rewards it gets frustrating as some members would want a specific fight while others want a different one, this would create unnecessary discourse.

Next balance would be put on an even playing field with the 1st 3 fights since can pick whichever 1st they all need to be at the same level difficulty wise making a situation where the last fight could have an insane difficulty rise rather than what the developers are intending at the moment with a difficulty curve (sometimes works often fails XD but they try to make a curve) to try and show a natural progression of you need to get better as you go along.

Then you are throwing the people who like to go for World 1st under a bus (a subsection of a subsection of the community) since they have to decide quickly what order they will try to learn and clear them all, leading to strategies being leaked all over, the people who want to watch are looking all over the place splitting viewership up even more, and any tension is removed until people are on the last fight because who knows the 2nd/3rd one could be easier than the 1st.


The current model is not broken stop trying to break it to suit how you want it to be.

Know what i'd like to see happen for one tier is if a mechanic from the 1st fight appears in the 2nd on top of what the 2nd offers then the 3rd fight has stuff from the 1st and 2nd with the last fight having stuff from each of them being the ultimate test of the entire tier. A mechanically evolution as you progress but I understand this would get stale if happened every tier so just 1 tier that evolves as you do be good for me.

I'm not trying to break anything and in fact you make a number of good points on the belt and accessory ordeal. So why not just remove belt and accessories from savage progression entirely? Accessories and the belt have been kind of an issue in other content as well since they don't typically boost defense, so in some fights you can have DPS just die to an AOE if they are cheesing the iLvL with them.

Points 2 and 3 are sort of interesting to read. You're actually a bit off on the whole thing with difficulty, unfortunately. In a perfect world the devs could predict which fight would be easier and which is harder, but in reality that is a really difficult thing to figure out even with playtest. The idea of letting people tackle content as they see it instead of picking a set order is to let people tackle bosses in the true difficulty order.

Like right now the two easiest fights in the tier are E5S and E7S, so what would have happened if what I'm talking about were the case is that people would do E5S and E7S first, then probably E6S before finally tackling E8S, which still is locked behind completing all three prior ones.

Also the part with throwing world 1st people under the bus is rich. The only thing that even matters in this game for world 1st is ultimate, prove me wrong.

Honestly the devs probably need the data from a "do it as you want" order since it would give them insight into which mechanics are more problematic for groups to deal with. Ultimately, even if they have no restriction on the order you can do content in, it would eventually have a true order as intended.

[ForteNightshade]

Bad idea.

It would be the fight that only offers belt and accessories that would be done last as they offer the least benefits. So in this tier's case Ramuh would be last to be cleared of the 3 before Shiva. If you then randomise rewards it gets frustrating as some members would want a specific fight while others want a different one, this would create unnecessary discourse.

Next balance would be put on an even playing field with the 1st 3 fights since can pick whichever 1st they all need to be at the same level difficulty wise making a situation where the last fight could have an insane difficulty rise rather than what the developers are intending at the moment with a difficulty curve (sometimes works often fails XD but they try to make a curve) to try and show a natural progression of you need to get better as you go along.

Then you are throwing the people who like to go for World 1st under a bus (a subsection of a subsection of the community) since they have to decide quickly what order they will try to learn and clear them all, leading to strategies being leaked all over, the people who want to watch are looking all over the place splitting viewership up even more, and any tension is removed until people are on the last fight because who knows the 2nd/3rd one could be easier than the 1st.


The current model is not broken stop trying to break it to suit how you want it to be.

Know what i'd like to see happen for one tier is if a mechanic from the 1st fight appears in the 2nd on top of what the 2nd offers then the 3rd fight has stuff from the 1st and 2nd with the last fight having stuff from each of them being the ultimate test of the entire tier. A mechanically evolution as you progress but I understand this would get stale if happened every tier so just 1 tier that evolves as you do be good for me.

Actually, Ramuh would be the most spammed because you need far more accessories than any other item. You also solve the whole difficulty dilemma and what have you by only allowing people to skip the order if they've previously killed those fives. I cleared Shiva week two; the others week one. There's no reason I have to still fight them in a specific order.

[EONX_]

There are a couple of new points I'm going to address here and because I have a lot to say, I'm just going to say I do agree with everything Crushnight had to say.
Firstly, I think people are making the whole "it's really difficult to find a group in the middle of a raid patch" more significant than it needs to be. Yes, I absolutely agree it's easier to find a group before a new tier comes out, but it's not remotely impossible to find a new group in the middle of the tier either. I've found three replacement groups at various times without difficulty. There are many resources out there that will aid in finding groups, be it discord LFG channels (I'm in 5 of them, 4 specific to primal), LFG subreddits, or even just using PF to browse potential groups.

Secondly, I really don't see any argument *for* removing the sequential lockout system and I'm seeing plenty of reasons *against* its implementation. Removing the sequential lockout system doesn't fix the issues presented remotely in fact I'd argue it would actually cause more problems to begin with. Difficulty is subjective. I've believed from week 1 that e5s is harder than both e6s/e7s, with e7s being the easiest of the tier. Is that true for everyone? No, absolutely not. Additionally, the DPS check and the damage dealt across the board generally increases with each fight in a tier (with e8s being a perfect example since Absolute Zero ONE-SHOT players week one if it wasn't mitigated significantly). The gear acquired from previous encounters, being done in a sequential manor, not only prepares you mentally for the likely difficulty increase in the next fight, but also prepares your character as the gear acquired will help with dishing out more damage, as well as being able to take it. Being able to do these fights in whatever order you choose is not only pointless, it'll likely make it MORE difficulty for both your group, as well as other groups since you'll probably have players going into e8s as their first ever savage fight.

Removing Belts and Accessories also don't help with anything here and, again, do the exact opposite of what you're proposing. Accessories and belts do include VITALITY, which does add up very fast. By removing accessories and belts from raid progression, you're actually giving players LESS max health to work with, as well as less damage stats as well, which makes the content more difficult. Also, belts do in fact have defence/magic defence stats, so. Savage raiding is all about gearing up your character, so why is getting better accessories/belts a problem? I do agree item level cheesing does exist (I see players enter the NieR raid with 430 left side/weapon and 480 accessories all the time), but that's an issue with how the game treats ilevel requirements, not the gear itself. I'll go into further details about this in a later post since this post is already probably more than 4000 characters long. (Editor's note, it was.)

[EONX_]

Also the part with throwing world 1st people under the bus is rich. The only thing that even matters in this game for world 1st is ultimate, prove me wrong.

You're not to judge what does and doesn't matter for other individuals. Here's an example; I've recently been getting lots of commissions of my FFXIV characters, as well as other characters I made, and I've had a few people ask me why I would spend upwards of $50USD on art. One of which was my brother who loves collecting NASCAR car models, so I said the following, "and why do you spend so much money collecting NASCAR cars? It has value to you, and the art I get has value to me". I'm not to judge what's important to others, and you don't get to decide that either. There are people that put an incredible amount of hours pursuing world first clear of e8s (it was also sponsored by Method, which made it a much bigger deal), so saying it doesn't matter is frankly insulting to those players.

[Colt47]

You're not to judge what does and doesn't matter for other individuals. Here's an example; I've recently been getting lots of commissions of my FFXIV characters, as well as other characters I made, and I've had a few people ask me why I would spend upwards of $50USD on art. One of which was my brother who loves collecting NASCAR car models, so I said the following, "and why do you spend so much money collecting NASCAR cars? It has value to you, and the art I get has value to me". I'm not to judge what's important to others, and you don't get to decide that either. There are people that put an incredible amount of hours pursuing world first clear of e8s (it was also sponsored by Method, which made it a much bigger deal), so saying it doesn't matter is frankly insulting to those players.

And that is the point of why I made that statement! The other poster had posted this bit...

Then you are throwing the people who like to go for World 1st under a bus (a subsection of a subsection of the community) since they have to decide quickly what order they will try to learn and clear them all, leading to strategies being leaked all over, the people who want to watch are looking all over the place splitting viewership up even more, and any tension is removed until people are on the last fight because who knows the 2nd/3rd one could be easier than the 1st.

Basically, if they did change how lockouts worked the whole world first mentality would still exist, it just changes. I could replace my own statement with any number of events depending on the time and place.

[Dafire]

Ah yes,the classic "i want to put 0 effort in and get the best gear in the game" thread,with replies such as "BiS makes me do more damage and make the job feel better,but i dont want to put any effort to get there,so just hand it to me for free". i thought we only got those posts in a Certain other western mmo.. guess choosing beggars are everywhere

[Mithia]

To be fair, Savages are tuned quite well. If you aren't able to complete the savages, it's not as if you aren't able to follow the story. Nor do you actually need the gear for other content asides from optimizing your dps on savage content or progressing ultimate. But if savage is to difficult for you then ultimate isn't for you either.

The game does allow you to get a full set at the same item level as savage minus the weapon before the next savage patch.

[AbelArchaniEA]

Savage isn't fun at all for me, I hate content that difficult. But there is no other way to get bis gear.

It's like because you said that, or you have some better arguments?

You have to earn BiS. You are not entitled to it. Either get good or play another game.