General Community Resistant to Healer Damage?

[EaMett]

Well this isn't WoW and DPS is practically required in the job quest line. There really is no excuse for a healer not even attempting to DPS.

You realize he's a troll right? Necroing an old thread for the 10th time today? He doesn't care about the conversation, he does a dozen of these every day.

[ADVSS]

You realize he's a troll right? Necroing an old thread for the 10th time today? He doesn't care about the conversation, he does a dozen of these every day.

Yeah this dude really wants to see necro for real. Though this isn't the worst topic he's revived. Personally I go with the philosophy that it isnt a real Final Fantasy boss fight unless DPS are ressing healers with Phoenix Downs. In the context of most single player games, you usually blasted enemies with holy magic probably every other round if nobody was about to die, then youd still spend a lot of time healing but it was about 50/50 or in bad phases 25/75*healing. So it just makes sense to me that healers would be able to put out incredible burst damage on the off chance that everybody is safe and topped off. If not, they usually came with powerful buffs that were worth using that round to use on the party for incoming damage or mechanics(spells like reflect for inevitable OHKO's) We simply have a little bit of a disconnect due to the rigid roles system, but also things like raises are totally only the healers responsibility in many group comp situations(only 2/10 dps have a raise spell). Perhaps healers shouldnt be forced to be the be all end all in all content, and give some security over to the rest of the party if they're both down? Its still very important to keep people alive throughout the fight, but the entire fight shouldnt be primarilly shouldered by them in the end, imo. That being said its fairly acceptable human behaviour to want to succeed a duty and if that means just spamming heals for easy clears, then thats what it means. I highly doubt people sign up very often to any duty to time out or fail it. Does the difficulty have to change? Probably not, but it would help if they werent the one role that was the keeper of the clear in all instances. That being said, you also see the same group complaining when you have tanks or dps that can heal themselves or give out raises, taking the burden away from them a little. Personally you get stuck between a rock and a hard place and you ultimately have to just seek a solution thats most fair. If it seems impossible to let them do DPS because they are too vocal against it, you simply stunt their dps and raise the damage in the other 2 roles. If they are vocal about wanting to do damage and demanding more engaging gameplay,you give them that freedom and give utility to the other roles, especially a raise, among other things, to bring a more equal and shared burden among the whole team. I see no problem with Phoenix Downs being usable in combat as is, they already limit 1 per inventory at any time, so you're not going to spam them, sure if everyone has 1 in their inventory you could coordinate a clutch from a wipe, but only that one time. Dont see why they cant just allow use of them, with a mildly speedier cast/use time, for that 1 time emergency per encounter.

[Seddrinth]

another thread ressurection by FF16Necromancer!

[Darsien]

I'm bit 50-50 on this subject.

While I personally DPS as much I can on healer regardless of content (i don't do savage though). And encourage people do it too.

But

I don't think every healer should be -forced- into it (especially if they not comfortable with it or unsure) unless we talk about said savage and endgame content. In normal-casual content such as Roulette's, it a nice bonus but hardly a deal breaker for the other 3 people to kill the boss.

Again, should be encouraged but never forced or being harassed for not doing it except in certain scenarios.

Healers that don't DPS are healers that are afk for 50-75% of an instance. That's unacceptable in any content. I'd argue it's even worse in content at Extreme level or easier, as that content has much, much less healing to do.

If a tank or DPS decided to do nothing half the time, it wouldn't matter what their excuse would be. They'd be seen as dead weight, lazy, selfish, trolling, etc. They would be kicked, maybe have a few reports thrown in there. I don't see how expecting a healer to DPS in that 50-75% downtime is "forcing" them to do anything. It's part 2 of the easiest role in the game: Keep people alive, then help kill the boss.

If they don't wanna feel "forced" to play properly, there are a ton of other MMOs that fulfill the "always healing" healer fantasy.

[Luna-M]

Healers that don't DPS are healers that are afk for 50-75% of an instance. That's unacceptable in any content. I'd argue it's even worse in content at Extreme level or easier, as that content has much, much less healing to do.

If a tank or DPS decided to do nothing half the time, it wouldn't matter what their excuse would be. They'd be seen as dead weight, lazy, selfish, trolling, etc. They would be kicked, maybe have a few reports thrown in there. I don't see how expecting a healer to DPS in that 50-75% downtime is "forcing" them to do anything. It's part 2 of the easiest role in the game: Keep people alive, then help kill the boss.

If they don't wanna feel "forced" to play properly, there are a ton of other MMOs that fulfill the "always healing" healer fantasy.

Look, I'm not disagreeing but at the same time, it's a thin line to getting toxic if you force someone do something they didn't sign up for. Especially if you go that far telling them to quit the game cause there is "other mmo's that fullfills healing 'fantasy'".

It's not like it gonna make or break that leveling roulette if healer focused more on healing and few dots vs spam Stone 90% and people dies due them not able to get them up in time or is not used to switch between dpsing and healing.

another thread ressurection by FF16Necromancer!

It's only a couple months old, not much of a necro and this subject seem to never die

[Thoosa]

Tbh healer dps isn’t required in anything except savage progression at minimum ilevel and Ultimate. Once the tanks get better gear in savage, healer dps becomes less vital, and then it turns into attempts for good logs.

They need to either give healers more dps buttons and a rotation, because pressing glare constantly and dia occasionally is really boring, OR change fights to hand out much more incoming damage to handle and more often. Also add some random elements in fights (Seat Ex was a good start) to make healing more interesting. Otherwise healers don’t really have a role.

[AnotherPerson]

Look, I'm not disagreeing but at the same time, it's a thin line to getting toxic if you force someone do something they didn't sign up for.

I agree with you that it's getting toxic if you force someone to do something they didn't sign up for. However, if you go to class change into a conjurer in the game, E-sumi tells you specifically that you're not playing healer right if you aren't DPSing as well as healing. To become a conjurer you get this long explanation of what conjury entails.

"Adventurers such as yourself oft stand upon the front lines of a battle. Owing to this, you are like to find yourself in many situations wherein a capacity for healing would be advantageous. Mind you, there is more to conjury than that. By harnessing the power of earth, wind, and water, conjurers are also capable of weaving spells that wreak havoc. In terms of Sheer destructive power, conjury may pale in comparison to thaumaturgy, but its capacity to defend one against aggression more than compensates for this relative shortcoming.

More than simply healers, yet not true dealers of destruction, conjurers realize their full potential when they employ their powers in support of others. This, my dear adventurer, is what it means to be one of us."

Essentially, he's saying although conjurers can't do as much DPS as other actual DPS jobs, they aren't supposed to be just a healer who can't fight back at all either. They only reach their full potential as a healer if they DPS and heal in a party because all their abilities will be utilized to the maximum to cover for those who don't have as potent healing abilities while they themselves can also fight.

Then you get the whole conjurer storyline quest explaining why a conjurer shouldn't be just using cure and should also be using aero and stone. So yes, a healer in this game is a combat medic, and not making the attempt to DPS at all while everyone's healthy when a large portion of the beginning parts of the game teaches you to do so make others think the healer is trolling or ridiculously bad at the game. It feels as bad as a DPS who doesn't use their full skillset and a tank who doesn't mitigate when tanking, so someone else have to pull that extra weight instead.


So technically, they did sign up for a job that aren't just pure healers and have that specific role to be DPSing, just to a lesser extent than the others.

[Luna-M]

I'm not saying they shouldn't DPS AT ALL, I agree with your points.
It's the whole mentality "dps or else" I cannot support.

[Reinha]

I'm not saying they shouldn't DPS AT ALL, I agree with your points.
It's the whole mentality "dps or else" I cannot support.

"Press buttons and try not being a detriment to your group, or else" applies to everyone. A tank wouldn't get away with not doing AoE in expert roulette even if technically the group could kill targets one by one the whole way. A dps wouldn't get away with intentionally standing in every AoE thinking that his HP is not his problem. What gave healers the idea that they would not only get away with not using their whole kit but that they would also be justified in doing so? Pressing dps buttons sometimes is a very easy standard to reach and it's indefensible to not even try.

[Violet_Galaxy]

You realize he's a troll right? Necroing an old thread for the 10th time today? He doesn't care about the conversation, he does a dozen of these every day.

You realize I don't care right? If the mods are not going to do anything then I'm not going to stress over it like the rest of y'all. I see a thread that interests me? I will reply to it. I hope I made myself clear. Thank you.