General Community Resistant to Healer Damage?

[NanaWiloh]

The reasoning is the same for tanks too and that s the reason I don't want to run savage anymore in FFXIV. Healing and tank gameplay is so terrible in raids in FFXIV that it needs to rely on making them DPS to bring some amount of skill in the endgame equation.

Last time this topic came up I took a 45 minute browse through FFlogs. The logs for healers in savage showed they had one thing in common, 50%-70% of their total button presses in a fight were dps spells. In a few rare cases I saw they got up to 80%.. I am not against healers dpsing during a fight but this needs to be fixed. Healing spells should be getting used far more then DPS spells, especially if we are going to have limited dps spells...like come on put us to work.

[Videra]

Last time this topic came up I took a 45 minute browse through FFlogs. The logs for healers in savaged showed they had one thing in common, 50%-70% of their total button presses in a fight were dps spells. In a few rare cases I saw they got up to 80%.. I am not against healers dpsing during a fight but this needs to be fixed. Healing spells should be getting used far more then DPS spells, especially if we are going to have limited dps spells...like come on put us to work.

Never going to happen. SE isn't brave enough and with the 'pure healers' around, would you want to trust their cure 1 spamming ways to try to keep you alive in a game with much more intense damage intake?

[NanaWiloh]

Never going to happen. SE isn't brave enough and with the 'pure healers' around, would you want to trust their cure 1 spamming ways to try to keep you alive in a game with much more intense damage intake?

Lol I run roulette I don't trust anyone unless they are a friend, fc member or someone I have ran with before.

[wereotter]

Dealing Damage: It's a balance issue. Consider that Red Mage DPS is lower than other casters because of the utility of Vercure. Being able to heal is considered a raid utility tool, so a healer just by the way this game is balanced needs to have healers deal lower damage. If healers did comparable damage to a DPS job, then raid teams would no longer be incentivized to bring 4 DPS jobs, they would bring 6 healers since the raid would survive better and not have to worry about DPS checks.

Rotation : This is also on purpose. You don't want to get into a situation where your healer refuses to heal because it would break their rotation, you also don't want to see a healer so set on watching their procs or stacks or whatever method they choose, and ignoring the primary job the healer has, and letting their team die. Better healers wouldn't have this problem, but beginning healers would. We already see this happen with healers with just the skills they have right now. Could the DPS kit be better for healers? Sure. I think giving healing jobs back a second DOT would be a good way to manage letting them keep up damage during healing phases, but I don't think a more complex rotation would benefit the game overall.

[Videra]

Dealing Damage: It's a balance issue. Consider that Red Mage DPS is lower than other casters because of the utility of Vercure.

Lulwut. RDM doesn't do lower DPS because of Vercure. Verraise is the DPS tax, and it's a dumb as hell one that needs to be canned.

[wereotter]

Lulwut. RDM doesn't do lower DPS because of Vercure. Verraise is the DPS tax, and it's a dumb as hell one that needs to be canned.

It's both. Summoner has resurrection and isn't taxed as heavily as Red Mage since the toolkit of that job has a raise, has a potent cure, and has a party damage increasing utility skill.

The main difference between the toolkits of both jobs are Vercure and chain raise opportunity.

[Videra]

It's both. Summoner has resurrection and isn't taxed as heavily as Red Mage since the toolkit of that job has a raise, has a potent cure, and has a party damage increasing utility skill.

The main difference between the toolkits of both jobs are Vercure and chain raise opportunity.

And the fact physick is literally less than worthless. But let me put it this way - Vercure has nothing to do with RDM's DPS tax outside of using dualcast to use Verraise. And, also, healers were healing just fine in HW back when we had much more complicated DP set-ups and less OGCD heals, so I really don't know how it's possible people think that we -have- to have two or three DPS buttons in a game that is littered with downtime. The vast majority of my GCDs these days are broil 3, and I really wish they weren't. The current state of healers is unacceptable, and if you recently started playing the game and had to deal with the fact you have two DPS spells since LEVEL EIGHT, you'd be pretty pissed too.

Frankly, the problem beginning healers have now is that they think Cure 1/Physick/Benefic are good spells. When they're not. They don't use their much more efficient tools, and you will find that you die to 'pure healers' more often than healers playing properly. That is a simple fact.

[wereotter]

And the fact physick is literally less than worthless. But let me put it this way - Vercure has nothing to do with RDM's DPS tax outside of using dualcast to use Verraise. And, also, healers were healing just fine in HW back when we had much more complicated DP set-ups and less OGCD heals, so I really don't know how it's possible people think that we -have- to have two or three DPS buttons in a game that is littered with downtime. The vast majority of my GCDs these days are broil 3, and I really wish they weren't. The current state of healers is unacceptable, and if you recently started playing the game and had to deal with the fact you have two DPS spells since LEVEL EIGHT, you'd be pretty pissed too.

Frankly, the problem beginning healers have now is that they think Cure 1/Physick/Benefic are good spells. When they're not. They don't use their much more efficient tools, and you will find that you die to 'pure healers' more often than healers playing properly. That is a simple fact.

Being able to provide potent healing is 100% a raid utility skill, that is my argument. Vercure doesn't have any place in the normal red mage rotation, but for that matter neither does verraise, neither does resurrection for summoner, neither does healing waltz for that matter. But you use them when the situation calls for it, which may be incredibly rare.

If you read my post, I agreed that the current healer damage rotation isn't good. I don't think it should be complicated or a lengthy rotation because of the reasons I put out, but I do think it could have more going for it.

[Sylve]

Lulwut. RDM doesn't do lower DPS because of Vercure. Verraise is the DPS tax, and it's a dumb as hell one that needs to be canned.

Its 'taxed' less harshly because Summoners Raise is identical to Healer Raises, a 1 minute cooldown Swiftcast and then manual 7 - 10 second casts to get someone up.

Compared to Red Mage, who can Swiftcast a Raise every 5 seconds while also dealing damage (Or Healing if the Healers are the ones who went down) between those Raises.

Or to put it another way, a Red Mage can Raise both dead Tanks and a Dead Healer in the same time as it takes a Summoner to place a Raise on the first dead Tank. The Red Mage sacrifices only the Potency lost in a 2.5s, single GCD window.
Summoner, outside of Swiftcast, loses up to 4 GCDs worth of Potency.

If Red Mage had equal DPS to Black Mage while also being able to Raise half the Full Party in 10 seconds, why would you ever bring a Black Mage?
Same goes for Summoner vs Red Mage.

Constant, instant and low opportunity cost Raising is a VERY powerful tool. Not every run is a perfectly coordinated Static run.