General Community Resistant to Healer Damage?

[ForteNightshade]

regarding green dps that lets people die, i think we should all look at Assize

a skill that heals and does damage. green dps players use it on cooldown and its enough to keep party members up for most mechanics.

if we had more skills that healed the party and did damage, suddenly tunnel visioning into dps becomes way less detrimental. of course it wont save the most hopeless cases, but having skills that heal and do damage would give such players higher chances to clear. perhaps even an incentive to heal too, as afflatus misery does too.

The issue with abilities like Assize is they're a DPS loss to sit on. Hence why you blow it on CD without a second thought even if it heals absolutely nothing.

[Morningstar1337]

The issue with abilities like Assize is they're a DPS loss to sit on. Hence why you blow it on CD without a second thought even if it heals absolutely nothing.

There are some cases where it might be worth sitting on it though for example it one shots the coiling ivy adds in Dohn Mehg, freeingthe group to avoid Swinge and intercepts tethers.

Of course it such mechanics are absent in savage, then yea it its best used on cooldown as much as possible.

Regarding equvalents for other healers though. AST has a hybrid of that and Asylum in Earthly Star.

[Billythepancake]

Healing downtime prevalence is a fact at this point. Look at dungeon and savage logs.

If the devs dislike the mentality of "having to fill healer downtime with dps" what exactly do they want us to fill that time with?

Healer DPS isn't even optional in fights. E8S is literally impossible without healer damage, actually impossible to clear. You could have the 4 best DPS and 2 best tanks in the world, all BiS and all playing perfectly, and they would not have the damage to clear that fight if healers didn't DPS. Let's not forget MSQ where you will also have to DPS, especially in the several 1v1s it throws you into. If DPS is going to be required it should be more interesting than spamming 1 button.

[Deceptus]

Healer DPS isn't even optional in fights. E8S is literally impossible without healer damage, actually impossible to clear. You could have the 4 best DPS and 2 best tanks in the world, all BiS and all playing perfectly, and they would not have the damage to clear that fight if healers didn't DPS. Let's not forget MSQ where you will also have to DPS, especially in the several 1v1s it throws you into. If DPS is going to be required it should be more interesting than spamming 1 button.

At minimum ilvl. I think, as has been stated by the devs before, that healer dps is expected more when you're at the ilvl or below it. But they're supposed to have balanced the fight with minimal healing dps.

Whether that is still true or not, they won't really say.

Which is extremely counter-intuitive. As ilvl goes up, dps goes up as does tank survivability, meaning healers will have less to heal and MORE time to dps.

[Liam_Harper]

At minimum ilvl. I think, as has been stated by the devs before, that healer dps is expected more when you're at the ilvl or below it. But they're supposed to have balanced the fight with minimal healing dps.

No. At maximum ilv.

Shiva Savage has a dps requirement just over 90k. 4 dps and 2 tanks playing at 99th percentile in BiS 500ilv gear can only reach about 84k max. The healers dps is absolutely required.

Granted that 90k may have been from before they removed add phase from the parse, so it could be "lower" now.

Possibly true. From a glance at the website that shall not be named, 0% wipes were happening with 85.5k. Still completely unrealistic.

[Billythepancake]

At minimum ilvl. I think, as has been stated by the devs before, that healer dps is expected more when you're at the ilvl or below it. But they're supposed to have balanced the fight with minimal healing dps.

Whether that is still true or not, they won't really say.

Which is extremely counter-intuitive. As ilvl goes up, dps goes up as does tank survivability, meaning healers will have less to heal and MORE time to dps.

Admittedly E8s is the exception,rather than the rule, t
But even in full bis, you need healer DPS to clear. You need around 90k rDPS or so to clear Shiva. The 2 best tanks and 4 best DPS in the world, combined, right now would pull 85.9k in Shiva. Granted that 90k may have been from before they removed add phase from the parse, so it could be "lower" now. So, at best, you'd be able to clear Shiva by the skin of your teeth, assuming your tanks and DPS were absolutely flawless. Realistically, you need them to clear it, no way that fight was designed for people to play perfectly so the healers could do nothing, not even ultimate is designed for people to play perfectly.

[Crushnight]

Healer downtime should feel rewarding to get, you are playing well enough that you don't need to heal and can dps, problem is getting to healer downtime is too easy with current content design philosophy and healer kits being too powerful, all the while the actual downtime is too simple, this makes an incredibly dull experience for healers who like to push themselves as far as they can go.


Shiva Savage is an exception but atm in ilv 500 gear it's impossible without healer Dps, no matter how good tanks and Dps are without the healer Dpsing you will hit enrage.

The content design team has shown what they expect out of healers at that level, if people don't like it they either get better or move on.

Personally I want a normal mode trial(can be optional one but preferably msq one) that would lock both healers away in seperate rooms and they must dps 1 add while healing another, thats it just 2 targets, normal mode having very low dps/heal requirements, failing it wipes the group and watch the Slyphies rage mwahahhahahahahaha.

[GrimGale]

regarding green dps that lets people die, i think we should all look at Assize

a skill that heals and does damage. green dps players use it on cooldown and its enough to keep party members up for most mechanics.

if we had more skills that healed the party and did damage, suddenly tunnel visioning into dps becomes way less detrimental. of course it wont save the most hopeless cases, but having skills that heal and do damage would give such players higher chances to clear. perhaps even an incentive to heal too, as afflatus misery does too.

Healers that tunevision into dps should not be an argument to inform game and job design in any case.

"Oh, some healers forgo their role, we should remove their buttons so they are forced to push the other buttons we actually want them to push."

Keep following this train of thought and healer classes will essentially become auto healing fonts with /follow on tank.

Healer players that don't heal is an issue solved by the player community, not by the design devellopers.

[QooEr]

Healers that tunevision into dps should not be an argument to inform game and job design in any case.

"Oh, some healers forgo their role, we should remove their buttons so they are forced to push the other buttons we actually want them to push."

Keep following this train of thought and healer classes will essentially become auto healing fonts with /follow on tank.

Healer players that don't heal is an issue solved by the player community, not by the design devellopers.

thats kind of my point. if as some people in the thread suggested, they stripped healers rotations to 2 buttons because of these players, the better solution would be making the damage rotation collaterally heal the party instead of making it as mindnumbing as possible

[Morningstar1337]

thats kind of my point. if as some people in the thread suggested, they stripped healers rotations to 2 buttons because of these players, the better solution would be making the damage rotation collaterally heal the party instead of making it as mindnumbing as possible

I've a few ideas for that.

1. WHM/Diurnal: Already covered with Assize and Earthly star respectably, but there could be a few more too that effect
2. SCH/Nocturnal: Have the DOTs have an additional effect of healing nearby players per tick for the same amount, as well as the Broil/Malefic casts.