General Community Resistant to Healer Damage?

[Seraphor]

I wrote that I like current AST more than I did in HW/SB in another thread yesterday. Weirdly I'm still not torn for this, but it's probably because the thread itself wasn't about healing in general.

Regardless of personal preference, I think AST is objectively better now than in Stormblood.
Imagine how that went down last July. It's the reason for my sig.

[GrimGale]

My point being - since I didn't want to repeat myself - I don't know anyone in game who uses the forums, and I've been playing since 2010, but I know plenty of people in game who are happy with their healers and don't find them boring. Myself included. Only one of those people is a raider these days ( he doesn't raid on a healer tho ) but many of us have raided in the past, so I wouldn't exactly describe any of us of casual. I do know people who have only recently started playing too, and they are having fun with healing.

Let me counter your anecdotal data with my own anecdotal data.

I'm in a static which has cleared both current savage tiers. My partner healer and myself are both burned out with our roles. I've talked to a few other statics and their healers seem to be in the very same situation, often describing the "one button spam" as the worse part of the role.


Again, we cannot know if this type of healing kit makes for interesting or fun gameplay. Fun is subjective after all.

What we do know is how much of a difference there is in the number of offensive spell casts and healing spell casts by simply looking at the logs.

If SE wanted to adjust healers to have them be "pure healers" wether it is to heal more or to focus on healing, it'd say they have failed. We cast almost three times more damage spells than healing spells. Which is why healers feel so repetitive.

[Elladie]

Let me counter your anecdotal data with my own anecdotal data.

I'm in a static which has cleared both current savage tiers. My partner healer and myself are both burned out with our roles. I've talked to a few other statics and their healers seem to be in the very same situation, often describing the "one button spam" as the worse part of the role.


Again, we cannot know if this type of healing kit makes for interesting or fun gameplay. Fun is subjective after all.

What we do know is how much of a difference there is in the number of offensive spell casts and healing spell casts by simply looking at the logs.

If SE wanted to adjust healers to have them be "pure healers" wether it is to heal more or to focus on healing, it'd say they have failed. We cast almost three times more damage spells than healing spells. Which is why healers feel so repetitive.

My point being, that is YOUR experience. It's not mine, and it doesn't match the experience of others either. Therefore any claim that the healing experience in the game is objectively bad is clearly nonsense. There are people on both sides, and I'm sure SE are constantly monitoring the situation and analysing the data to see what needs changing, if anything. If they don't change anything, it's because more people are behaving in a way that shows they don't have issues with healers as they currently stand. I don't understand the argument that the devs aren't listening or are ignoring you deliberately; no, they are doing what the data indicates is the most player retentive/proftable. Anything else would be the height of stupidity.

I get that this annoys you. I understand why. But the solution is a change to the most demanding and complex content in the game, not to the healer kit. 90% of healers don't touch that content and don't want to, and that's where SE should focus a bigger demand on healer skill. Not by adding more complex DPS skills but by increasing the opportunity for mistakes that require more intensive healing/more random damage and so on

[Deceptus]

My point being, that is YOUR experience. It's not mine, and it doesn't match the experience of others either. Therefore any claim that the healing experience in the game is objectively bad is clearly nonsense. There are people on both sides, and I'm sure SE are constantly monitoring the situation and analysing the data to see what needs changing, if anything. If they don't change anything, it's because more people are behaving in a way that shows they don't have issues with healers as they currently stand. I don't understand the argument that the devs aren't listening or are ignoring you deliberately; no, they are doing what the data indicates is the most player retentive/proftable. Anything else would be the height of stupidity.

I get that this annoys you. I understand why. But the solution is a change to the most demanding and complex content in the game, not to the healer kit. 90% of healers don't touch that content and don't want to, and that's where SE should focus a bigger demand on healer skill. Not by adding more complex DPS skills but by increasing the opportunity for mistakes that require more intensive healing/more random damage and so on

The fact that healer in need is almost constantly in effect shows SOMETHING is wrong and causing healers to not play as much as they used to.

[Seraphor]

The fact that healer in need is almost constantly in effect shows SOMETHING is wrong and causing healers to not play as much as they used to.

Healer has always been the 'role in need', at least as long as I've played since late HW. People have never liked playing healer, period. Which is almost certainly due to the perceived pressure the role brings.
Besides, I still see Tank as the role in need fairly often, so it's not 100%.

[Halivel]

The fact that healer in need is almost constantly in effect shows SOMETHING is wrong and causing healers to not play as much as they used to.

I can't say for NA, but on my DC it's 50% Tank in need, 45% Healer in need and 5% DPS in need. Healers are surely are more often in need now than they were here, but very far from constantlly.

But no, I'm sure you enjoyed having such a janky RNG system to fight against. I'm sure it was a blast!
I'm sure Tanks would enjoy it if their cooldowns randomly disappeared form their hotbars as well, or perhaps Monk's had their stances randomly change instead of being on a rotation.
Or you know what, maybe Black Mages spells could either cast random fire or ice spells. Will it be Blizzard and regen MP, or will it be Fire and switch from UI to AF when you don't want to? Who knows!

I was screwed by RNG to the point of almost hating green color, that's how often I had Bole. I guess Tanks were happy though.

[Deceptus]

I can't say for NA, but on my DC it's 50% Tank in need, 45% Healer in need and 5% DPS in need. Healers are surely are more often in need now than they were here, but very far from constantlly.

Just because it says "tank in need" doesn't mean tanks are indeed, in need.

I've had plenty of times where it said that, queued as a tank, had a 5 min (or more) wait.

Switched to healer, Instant Pop.

SE's "In Need" system is simply flawed.

[Elladie]

The fact that healer in need is almost constantly in effect shows SOMETHING is wrong and causing healers to not play as much as they used to.

On the Chaos data centre tank in need is still more common. It is DPS in need often too, especially for trials and raids. I have been levelling an alt healer and an alt DPS during lockdown, and I've experienced a healer bonus once in 2 months. I have also had almost insta queues on my DPS which is a VERY new experience to me. So again, my experience doesn't match yours. And as I have said several times already, presumably SE knows which is the more accurate picture, if either, and will act accordingly.

I'm not the one making demands here. I am having fun with my healers currently. I would prefer them not to change them up too much; the only criticism I had of ShB SCH was the loss of Energy Drain, which they put back almost immediately. But if they do make drastic changes, I will play the role and see what I think; if it doesn't suit me, I will play RDM or DNC most probably, but I won't presume that SE have made the changes for no reason or accuse them of idiocy or of ruining MY game. I'll presume they've done so because they have objective evidence that such changes are necessary to prevent large numbers of players leaving the game

[Liam_Harper]

I'm sure SE are constantly monitoring the situation and analysing the data to see what needs changing, if anything. If they don't change anything, it's because more people are behaving in a way that shows they don't have issues with healers as they currently stand. I don't understand the argument that the devs aren't listening or are ignoring you deliberately; no, they are doing what the data indicates is the most player retentive/proftable. Anything else would be the height of stupidity.

I'd love to know where your faith in the devs comes from.

Devs make Diadem, overall dislike. Devs ignore this and repeat it with Eureka, overall dislike. 5.0 Devs finally confirm they realize we disliked that form of content.
HoH and PotD are quite popular. Devs discontinue it.
More Hildebrand requested. Devs acknowledge this is popular, then refuse because they feel it's dragging on.
Devs introduced greed only rolls in Alliance. Huge uproar and had to be reverted.
Nin and Sam released in 5.0 with big flaws despite countless pages feedback. Later Devs confirm "oh, you were right" and rework them.
Expert crafts a massive success with a huge leaderboard turnout even for just a title. Devs do literally nothing else with this new system.
Devs simplify DoH/L and buff exp to encourage crafting and discourage macro usage. Macro usage greatly increases, DoH forum almost dead, everything on MB worthless and Ishgard nearly empty.
WoW pet battles an overwhelming success. Devs ignore that and create Verminion, an overwhelming failure.
WoW Mythic dungeons an overwhelming success. Devs ignore that, remove a dungeon and add rng fishing on a big boat.
Devs force tanks to use Vit accessories in stormblood. Crafted becomes Savage BiS. Devs confirm they had no clue what they were doing and add Str ones in ShB.
DRK in a terrible state all of Stormblood. Devs admit they got it wrong and rework it in ShB, but ignore feedback and get it wrong again.

...and here were are again with Tanks and Heals. The changes were intended to encourage more players into the role. Queue times are as long as ever, forums are full of negative feedback, yet against all evidence and past track record we're to trust the Devs have it all planned out and there's a silent majority hiding in the shadows who just love it all and the queue times will fix themselves any second now?

I mean, I like FF, it's a good game and I don't mean disrespect to the Devs who are only human. But they can get it wrong sometimes.

[MirronTulaxia]

I do wonder how they could manage to make healing more important, as currently all they've done is simplified DPS which... isn't bad, but without the additional healing responsibility I can understand the issue. I'm not sure how the issue could be fixed, but I'm not really wanting to have healers get pushed to do more DPS, even if they could probably diversify the DPS thing a bit.