General Community Resistant to Healer Damage?

[yukiiyuki]

500th topic on the matter.
Same echoes.
Nothing will ever change.

It will never change, as long as community are happy being lazy. Even if they add more complexity, this forum will be flooded with people who want to press one button instead, If they add more variety to mechanics in boss battles, people will complain, that's now they need to heal.
It's not devs fault that community is so great, they're just looking at what most people want from this game.

[Crushnight]

Only started to heal, curious why you think the design is so terrible? As a WoW healer, seems fine as is.

Wow healing is complimented by its content design, FFXIV healing is not, you may not notice in early levels but as you level up you start to realise your ogcds are able to handle most of the healing leaving you with your 1 Dot every 30s and your spam nuke, put in scripted damage so you can plan everything down , mp economy that never seems to run dry, and have the entire rotation by lv8 and you just get an incredibly dull experience for career healers where they hope to having the worst party members possible so they can be engaged on their day to day content.

There is a boss you fight 3x in ShB all 3 healers do not change from fight 1 to fight 3, 7 levels apart, no healer evolves during that part on a personal level, they just move from 1 chair to another chair.

[Allegor]

Wow healing is complimented by its content design, FFXIV healing is not, you may not notice in early levels but as you level up you start to realise your ogcds are able to handle most of the healing leaving you with your 1 Dot every 30s and your spam nuke, put in scripted damage so you can plan everything down , mp economy that never seems to run dry, and have the entire rotation by lv8 and you just get an incredibly dull experience for career healers where they hope to having the worst party members possible so they can be engaged on their day to day content.

There is a boss you fight 3x in ShB all 3 healers do not change from fight 1 to fight 3, 7 levels apart, no healer evolves during that part on a personal level, they just move from 1 chair to another chair.

I recently started playing an alt and for once in an eternity I actually had to go the pure healer route. Not going to lie, it felt nostalgically nice (WoW refugee here) but at the same time that only happened because 1- I was in white, leveling gear, 2- the sprout tank didn't use a single cd during the whole run, and 3- I was at a level where Cure I and Medica were literally all I had. The moment I obtain Solace and/or Tetra I might as well remove Cure I from my hotbar

[SieyaM]

I will admit right now to not reading the entire thread, but it isn't about not wanting to do damage. At least to me its not, it's about wanting healing to be more involved rather than making them into another DPS role with some healing abilities. There seems to be this idea that the way to fix healers is to just give them better damage instead of actually giving them something to do with support or healing.

[Crushnight]

I will admit right now to not reading the entire thread, but it isn't about not wanting to do damage. At least to me its not, it's about wanting healing to be more involved rather than making them into another DPS role with some healing abilities. There seems to be this idea that the way to fix healers is to just give them better damage instead of actually giving them something to do with support or healing.

I'm going to ask a question for you all that are wanting more emphasis on healing/support

Do you think they would rework all of ARR,HW,SB and ShB encounters to suit it?

That is what needs to happen to support a more healing/support playstyle 80 levels of content do not need more healing, 80 levels of content do not compliment the current heavy healing focused healer kits (I mean just look at them they are as bare bones on the dps end as can be and healers are bored and unsatisfied), a more healing/support focus cannot work without heavy encounter tweaking and even then it still leaves the issue of well hope you enjoy solo instances with no one to support/heal.

People are asking for more dps options as it is the simplest way to allieviate the boredom of 121111111112 as the only thing the devs have to tweak is the jobs themselves.


Don't get me wrong I would love a good emphasis on healing/support but current FFXIV does not compliment this playstyle(old Ast was the closest to this yet it was still a noticeable bare bones rotation that no Ast wanted for the other healers), healers are combat medics in this game and it is time the devs embraced the 'combat' part for healers

[Imakun]

That is what needs to happen to support a more healing/support playstyle 80 levels of content do not need more healing, 80 levels of content do not compliment the current heavy healing focused healer kits (I mean just look at them they are as bare bones on the dps end as can be and healers are bored and unsatisfied), a more healing/support focus cannot work without heavy encounter tweaking and even then it still leaves the issue of well hope you enjoy solo instances with no one to support/heal.

Thing is, the current "healing focused" style of XIV's healer jobs is already not supported. You can take care of any healing with a couple of buttons in any given situation and then just go back to spam Glare/Malefic/Broil.
The current general mentality is "waste as little GCD on healing as possible so you can spam your damage spell".

A healer.. WASTING GCD on healing. See the problem here?

Further edit: The "well then it's gonna get boring with the solo instances" problem. Guess what, it already is. I despise any single player instance I am forced to do as a healer because 99% of them have a grand total of zero healing involved.

As others have already said, the in-game reality is that healers are sparse. Because they're all the same job with different graphical effects AND IT SUCKS.

Give. Healers. Their. Flavor. Back.

The Devs gave us "healing focused healers!" not by creating scenarios and encounters that actually require healing but by upping the number of healing abilities for AST/SCH/WHM and removing everything else. We now have too many healing GCD/oGCD that can also feel clunky to use for no reason (why does Plenary Indulgence work automatically while I have to trigger Horoscope manually? Nobody knows! Properly timing the fairy stuff on Seraph? Good luck with that) and two damage spells that are the exact copy of each other with varying degree of flashiness.

Before ShB, WHM needed help because it was lagging behind AST and SCH a bit. Well, now they all suck. Well done?

[Enla]

-snip-

In a perfect world I'd say yes without hesitation - assuming that SE had infinite time and money to make this happen. However given that this isn't a perfect world and there are factors that would prohibit such a fundamental overhaul of the entire game, I'd have to say that as much as I highly desire a higher emphasis on healing it's unrealistic to expect every encounter to be changed to suit it. At best all we could really hope for would be a gradual ramping up in healing difficulty over the encounters we're given from now till 6.0 to help train the general player populace to get used to a change in the meta. But even then they really can't change much without running the risk of alienating a lot of people regardless of their roles.

So while I lament the state of healing/support in this game and miss much of the gutted utility, I definitely agree that changing up the DPS meta for healers is the simplest way to fix the current issue. However I also, sadly, don't think SE will even consider doing that. While most healer mains can comfortably heal about 10-20 percent of the time in any encounter the developers seem to be of the opinion that the game we're playing requires much more stringent healing than is actually necessary. I can't tell if they're designing encounters around the least common denominator who legitimately cannot handle even that minimal work load, or if they just fundamentally misunderstand the meta they themselves have put in place. Either way I feel it's going to be an uphill battle to even get concessions on the DPS side of things.

[Halivel]

I don't mind healer dpsing and do dps myself when I go anywhere as healer. However, as a tank, a would rather prefer healer doing healing when I need it instead of seeing how my HP is dropping to 150 out of 120300 under a big pull while he's casting his AoE kit. That's what pisses me off - when healer thinks he's a dps and that this is his main job, completely ignoring the fact he actually need to... it may be unbeliveable, but... heal. I prefer going slower but safe instead of wiping endlessly because healer thought that spamming Holy is more important than his tank dying because he thought he will have time to use Benediction on 10 HP moment.

That said, if people pick healer role with a mindset "heal as less as possible and dps as much as possible" - they aren't suitable for this role, despite the fact high end contect asks them to dps on a decent level.

[Billythepancake]

I don't mind healer dpsing and do dps myself when I go anywhere as healer. However, as a tank, a would rather prefer healer doing healing when I need it instead of seeing how my HP is dropping to 150 out of 120300 under a big pull while he's casting his AoE kit. That's what pisses me off - when healer thinks he's a dps and that this is his main job, completely ignoring the fact he actually need to... it may be unbeliveable, but... heal. I prefer going slower but safe instead of wiping endlessly because healer thought that spamming Holy is more important than his tank dying because he thought he will have time to use Benediction on 10 HP moment.

That said, if people pick healer role with a mindset "heal as less as possible and dps as much as possible" - they aren't suitable for this role, despite the fact high end contect asks them to dps on a decent level.

If a healer is truly capable of letting you drop to 150 HP before they heal you, and can do so consistently without letting you die, then they're an amazing healer. A healers job is to keep you alive, keyword: alive. As long as you don't hit 0 due to unavoidable damage, they did the healing part of their job well enough.

[Halivel]

If a healer is truly capable of letting you drop to 150 HP before they heal you, and can do so consistently without letting you die, then they're an amazing healer. A healers job is to keep you alive, keyword: alive. As long as you don't hit 0 due to unavoidable damage, they did the healing part of their job well enough.

Fair, but the main issue is that a lot of healers actually can't keep this or it works 50/50 thanks to factors different than just their skill (like mob hitting a bit earlier than they expected or latency issues). Also if the healer heals me only when my HP is extremely low to the point of raising the question "will I stay alive or not" - I won't accept the whining about Superbolide procking 0.5 second earlier than Benediction/another hard healing skill. Keeping tank alive isn't equal to "give them heart attack on every single pull", especially when we talk about things like roulettes done with random people whose skill in playing I don't know just as they don't know mine. I can completely ignore my HP when I'm with the healer I know because I trust them, but when you're with randoms - trust is a luxury.