General Community Resistant to Healer Damage?

[Elladie]

I did a run of Stone Vigil yesterday on an alt, her first run through there. She is not badly geared (already has some basic AF) but is obviously not wearing Neo Ishgardian stuff. It was a nice group of folks too which was the biggest novelty for me since I've run that dungeon many times. I was on WHM and I ran out of MP at least twice on big pulls, managed to keep the tank up but I was literally spamming Cure/Cure 2 (cure first because I was praying for freecure to proc but I often needed to use Cure 2 with no freecure). Had Regen on too and used Lucid Dreaming always. If I got the chance to pop a DoT on, it was only at the end of the pull.

Was it stressful. No, but I know what I'm doing. Had I been the sprout that I appeared to be, it could have been very stressful. My point being, healers come in all shapes and sizes and unless they're actively sabotaging your run by sitting in a corner and refusing to move, leave them alone. Or kick them them if them not DPSing bothers you that much. Personally I think a DPS not DPSing is far more annoying and happens way more often - yes, ice mages, I'm looking at you - than healers focusing exclusively on heals or tanks doing small pulls

[ForteNightshade]

I did a run of Stone Vigil yesterday on an alt, her first run through there. She is not badly geared (already has some basic AF) but is obviously not wearing Neo Ishgardian stuff. It was a nice group of folks too which was the biggest novelty for me since I've run that dungeon many times. I was on WHM and I ran out of MP at least twice on big pulls, managed to keep the tank up but I was literally spamming Cure/Cure 2 (cure first because I was praying for freecure to proc but I often needed to use Cure 2 with no freecure). Had Regen on too and used Lucid Dreaming always. If I got the chance to pop a DoT on, it was only at the end of the pull.

Was it stressful. No, but I know what I'm doing. Had I been the sprout that I appeared to be, it could have been very stressful. My point being, healers come in all shapes and sizes and unless they're actively sabotaging your run by sitting in a corner and refusing to move, leave them alone. Or kick them them if them not DPSing bothers you that much. Personally I think a DPS not DPSing is far more annoying and happens way more often - yes, ice mages, I'm looking at you - than healers focusing exclusively on heals or tanks doing small pulls

Stone Vigil is a poor example because it being one of the early dungeons, massive pulls aren't as easily manageable. If you were in that same situation in say, Holminster Switch or Grand Cosmos, you'd be spamming Holy more than all your healing abilities combined.

Regardless, it isn't a competition on which role performing poorly is the worst. They're all bad. A DPS not AoEing is just as bad as a tank not popping cooldowns or a healer throwing out useless heals. The point remains none of it should be encouraged—and for the most part isn't. Healers are the only role, however, that often get an excuse. Hence the near constant argument.

[Noira]

You guys keep skipping over the problem, Healer DPS should NEVER mean the difference between a wipe or clear on causal content.

Also as a dps, saying dps not dpsing optimally isn't noticeable, that's a joke right ? We know when a boss takes too long or when adds don't die fast enough, trust me we notice everything. Even in causal content it's noticeable.

[KageTokage]

You guys keep skipping over the problem, Healer DPS should NEVER mean the difference between a wipe or clear on causal content.

Also as a dps, saying dps not dpsing optimally isn't noticeable, that's a joke right ? We know when a boss takes too long or when adds don't die fast enough, trust me we notice everything. Even in causal content it's noticeable.

The normal mode encounters that do have DPS checks of some sort are lenient enough that unless your DPS are doing something extremely wrong with their rotation and/or dying repeatedly healer DPS is not needed, but always welcome.

[basketofseals]

You guys keep skipping over the problem, Healer DPS should NEVER mean the difference between a wipe or clear on causal content.

What casual encounters are made or broken by healer dps?

[Noira]

That's what I'm asking.

[Enla]

You guys keep skipping over the problem, Healer DPS should NEVER mean the difference between a wipe or clear on causal content.

Also as a dps, saying dps not dpsing optimally isn't noticeable, that's a joke right ? We know when a boss takes too long or when adds don't die fast enough, trust me we notice everything. Even in causal content it's noticeable.

It almost never is however. Most casual content can be limped through with every single player pressing 1, 1, 1, 1, 1 over and over again. It'll take awhile, but it has never been a barrier to entry. The /ONLY/ content that has this issue are the occasional story based solo quests. Such as the encounter with "Zenos" at the end of Stormblood, where it was definitely not tuned with most healers in mind and a lot of people did struggle with it if the massive topics here on the forums at the time were anything to be believed. However even that has become a moot point with ilvl increases and most people have generally outstripped the difficulty curve of that piece of content by the time they get to it these days.

If you go into dungeons and normal raids and don't DPS you aren't necessarily holding anyone back as those encounters are designed to be completed by even the most brain dead of players. You're making it take longer than necessary, but I think most people don't really care so long as you at least stay alive and herd the rest of the cats to the proverbial finish line. Because in those instances 'good enough' is generally fine due to expectations for good play being significantly lower than in more demanding content.

They will never make the mistake of forcing healer DPS to be essential in casual group content at this point in the development cycle.

[Selova]

I think It honestly has to do with mentality over anything else and it's even more prevalent with players coming to the game looking to heal and realizing that playing any healer job where you're doing nothing but healing means you're going to be experiencing a lot of downtime sitting on your thumbs. You would think the normal reaction to figuring this out would be them coming to the realization that they have plenty of time to dish out some damage rather than just sitting there doing nothing, but given the amount of healers I've seen that literally just stand there and cast their most basic heal anytime a tank takes a sliver of damage It's become evident that some people don't go through that thought process.


Whenever I've played a healer or leveled one in this game my thought process was always "How can i perform my role the most efficiently while supporting the group/raid I'm in" but as time goes on you will eventually come to the realization that there are people out there that either adopt odd play styles, are selfish and feel like doing damage isn't their job because they are a healer, or they are just all about themselves. I can't really wrap my head around why people insist on playing like this.

[Seraphor]

I'm against healers having a complicated (more than 2 button) DPS rotation.
The problem here is, if the healer is half-way through their rotation, they have to cancel the rotation to react to healing.
This will create a whole other level of difficulty in optimising healer DPS, and would essentially mean doing two whole jobs at once. Or Healing itself will become entirely oGCD.

WHM already have 5 offensive skills. It doesn't need to use them in a complex rotation.
AST bolsters it's dps with buffs, and I think most AST players accept this reality of the job.
SCH's currently have the short straw in my opinion, and they do actually have room for some kind of simple DPS rotation. So 2-buttons. And I think this could be done with a simple proc triggered by Broil/Art of War:

Broil III Additional Effect: Has a 50% chance of proccing 'Broiling Ruin'
Broiling Ruin: Increases the potency of your next Ruin II by 80.

Basically, gives SCH a sporadic Dualcast effect, enabling use of Ruin II outside of movement or forced weaving windows. Makes for a more engaging DPS rotation, and by using that free time to squeeze in a clip-free Energy Drain, is a slight DPS gain.

Art of War Additional Effect: Inflicts targets with 'Tactical Target' effect.
Tactical Target: Lowers damage dealt by 5% and causes target to be struck by any Ruin II spell cast on another target at 75% potency. Duration: 10s. Effect is removed upon use of Ruin II.

Basically, turns Ruin II into a '200 potency + 75% (or 150) on remaining targets' AoE (Compared to AoW's flat 160 potency) when combo'd off of AoW. It’s a DPS gain on up to 4 targets, slight drop off after that, plus the bonus effect of a semi-Reprisal for up to 10s if you need to stop DPSing.

[Awha]

I'm against healers having a complicated (more than 2 button) DPS rotation.
The problem here is, if the healer is half-way through their rotation, they have to cancel the rotation to react to healing.
This will create a whole other level of difficulty in optimising healer DPS, and would essentially mean doing two whole jobs at once. Or Healing itself will become entirely oGCD.

Is that really a problem? I mean the main goal of healing currently is to limit the amount of gcds spent on healing, and some extra depth in optimizing healer dps would be probably be welcomed by many. What is wrong with asking healers to do a little more?