General Community Resistant to Healer Damage?

[technole]

I guess you skipped Bardem's Mettle and Holminster Switch. Seriously some of you 'savage raiders' need to like gone some where, because you forgot how the rest of the game actually plays.

To be fair, leveling dungeons will usually be harder than expert roulette dungeons simply because of leveling curve.

If you were i400 going into Hominster with DPS that can hit aoe buttons it's a cake walk. Not a common feat today.

[Videra]

I guess you skipped Bardem's Mettle and Holminster Switch. Seriously some of you 'savage raiders' need to like gone some where, because you forgot how the rest of the game actually plays.

Bardam's Mettle and Holminster Switch's mobs hit microscopically harder than other dungeons. I still find plenty of time to spam art of war or gravity in big pulls on said dungeons, which - to be frank? Is most of those pulls. I'm not even a savage raider.

[ForteNightshade]

I guess you skipped Bardem's Mettle and Holminster Switch. Seriously some of you 'savage raiders' need to like gone some where, because you forgot how the rest of the game actually plays.

Bardem's Mettle only hit hard if you did the super pull otherwise it was standard dungeon trash. Holminster Switch requires a little extra healing but nothing much. It was only rough on Astro in 5.0 because Astro healing was laughably weak compared to White Mage and Scholar.

And before you ask, I've tanked and healed both dungeons; doing the latter in sub i400 gear. And I'm not a great healer by any stretch.

[KageTokage]

The tank is only ever at much risk of death in dungeons if they're pulling multiple packs at the same time.

A single pack in Bardam's Mettle or Holminster Switch still doesn't hit hard enough to make me need much more then Regen/Aspected Benefic to keep them up if they're actually using mitigation cooldowns.

What is genuinely stressful is a severely undergeared tank going into one of said instances with so little defense/HP that they can't take more then two sets of auto attacks without dying.

[Breezelyn]

Just putting my two senses here:

A healer's dps could mean the life or a wipe of an entire party. It DOES make a difference, even if it's just a few hits here and there with re-applying their DoT (or DoTs). I always dps when no one needs healing and/or is topped off. I only switch to pure healer is when there's a lot party-wide damage going out. But most of the time I'm in dps mode with the rest of the party. People need to get a bit out of their comfort zone and just dps. Dps when you find open windows. It makes a difference in a run with it bit being faster. So please, healers, dps when you find open windows.

Signed: a fellow casual healer.

[Shofie]

Just putting my two senses here:

A healer's dps could mean the life or a wipe of an entire party.

If a healer dpsing literally means a wipe or not in "casual" content (as you describe yourself as a casual healer), there are very serious issues at play, because it's been stated many, many times that healer dps is never required to do any content; and only "useful" to groups pushing cutting edge endgame content to squeak a win out ahead of another group slightly faster.

Healer dps is a nice bonus, a cherry on your ice cream sundae, not the entire dang bowl of ice cream. You can live without it, it's just a little faster and a little nicer with it. It does not "mean the life or wipe of an entire party" unless your party has very, very bad dps or something.

[ForteNightshade]

If a healer dpsing literally means a wipe or not in "casual" content (as you describe yourself as a casual healer), there are very serious issues at play, because it's been stated many, many times that healer dps is never required to do any content; and only "useful" to groups pushing cutting edge endgame content to squeak a win out ahead of another group slightly faster.

Healer dps is a nice bonus, a cherry on your ice cream sundae, not the entire dang bowl of ice cream. You can live without it, it's just a little faster and a little nicer with it. It does not "mean the life or wipe of an entire party" unless your party has very, very bad dps or something.

A healer that does zero DPS borders on completely worthless. If you had a Red Mage filling their spot or three DPS and a Paladin, that comp is both faster and more beneficial than a healer who stands around doing absolutely nothing but spamming useless heals. It's also a matter of principle. Why should DPS or tanks be expected to utilize their full kits but a healer isn't? More often than not it simply boils down to the healer multi-tasking Youtube, Netflix and etc. You're also vastly underestimating how much healers can contribute in an AoE situation. They can equal or surpass tanks. So by that logic, Dark Knight should be able to do an Unleash combo and afk, right? After all, they've established aggro.

[SamRF]

If a healer dpsing literally means a wipe or not in "casual" content (as you describe yourself as a casual healer), there are very serious issues at play, because it's been stated many, many times that healer dps is never required to do any content; and only "useful" to groups pushing cutting edge endgame content to squeak a win out ahead of another group slightly faster.

Healer dps is a nice bonus, a cherry on your ice cream sundae, not the entire dang bowl of ice cream. You can live without it, it's just a little faster and a little nicer with it. It does not "mean the life or wipe of an entire party" unless your party has very, very bad dps or something.

Hasn't this been debunked a bunch of times (for high-end content)? Even if it is possible to meet DPS checks with healers doing 0 dmg, it will be significantly more difficult, good luck doing that in Party Finder or midtier groups.

[Shofie]

I don't mind when healers DPS.

I object to attitudes about healer DPS when it's:

A) expected in all situations regardless of anything else that may be a consideration;
B) I have to play with healers who prioritize DPS over healing (and usually cause deaths/wipes).

I don't care if anyone wants to DPS as a healer, as long as healing is still their main priority.

I bring this up every time there's a debate about healer dps, but not all healers are created equal, and not all of us are comfortable dpsing all the time in every single situation--which should be fine--! but people get hellbent sometimes that a healer HAS to be dpsing or they're a "bad" healer, throwing literally every other bit of reasoning out the window for it.

Some healers aren't very well geared, some of their tanks are badly geared. Sometimes groups struggle with mechanics and the healer has to compensate (Every mechanic becomes a healer mechanic on a long enough time line!) and the healer dpsing just isn't always feasible, and I wish more people understood that.

[Billythepancake]

I don't mind when healers DPS.

I object to attitudes about healer DPS when it's:

A) expected in all situations regardless of anything else that may be a consideration;
B) I have to play with healers who prioritize DPS over healing (and usually cause deaths/wipes).

I don't care if anyone wants to DPS as a healer, as long as healing is still their main priority.

I bring this up every time there's a debate about healer dps, but not all healers are created equal, and not all of us are comfortable dpsing all the time in every single situation--which should be fine--! but people get hellbent sometimes that a healer HAS to be dpsing or they're a "bad" healer, throwing literally every other bit of reasoning out the window for it.

Some healers aren't very well geared, some of their tanks are badly geared. Sometimes groups struggle with mechanics and the healer has to compensate (Every mechanic becomes a healer mechanic on a long enough time line!) and the healer dpsing just isn't always feasible, and I wish more people understood that.

I consider a healer that does 0 DPS bad in the same sense I consider a RDM that only spams jolt bad, or a DPS that only uses autos bad. Will it get you through the basic content? Sure, eventually, but it makes things take substantially longer. Healer DPS is nothing to scoff at right now, they're out DPSing tanks, (on a personal note, in a lot of my personal roulettes I've, allegedly, out DPSed a lot of the DPS too.) and if they're just spamming a level 1 cure they''re playing extremely poorly.

That's not to say I really care when I'm just doing roulettes, but it's hard not to notice.

As for Healer DPS not being a factor in clearing casual content? No duh, even DPS damage isn't a factor in clearing basic content. You could have a SAM use 2 GCDs the entire dungeon run and still clear it. Doesn't mean it's something to condone or something that shouldn't be pointed out. Maybe I'm of a different mindset though. I've never gotten upset when someone told me ways I could improve, or what I could be doing better, yet, when I've tried to tell a WHM that they shouldn't spam Medica II for every single heal they lashed out at me and wouldn't stop going on about what an "elistist" I am.