The current job design system is not fit for purpose

[Kytrin]

Waiting 2 years for major changes to jobs sucks but it is what it is, I just hope they drop the idea of "everything needs to look new at expansion launch" because that just doesn't work in the long run.

THIS. Oh my god this x1000! Samurai was largely fine at the end of Stormblood. We did not need half the changes they made, especially to Hagakure, when Shadowbringers dropped. I admit I like some of the abilities they added, but they really have a nasty habit of going overboard with the start of the expansions and then spend the entire expansion trying to fix it. It's aggravating. If the job is performing well, just leave it be and give it a few new abilities or something. We don't need you to rewrite it.

[ForteNightshade]

It wasn't, though. SAM was the worst Melee DPS by a large margin. Even at the end it forever fell under the shadow of SMN, BLM, NIN, and MNK for a slot. It was only ever seriously used on O12S's door boss. It definitely needed changes and I firmly believe current SAM is better then Stormblood SAM.

To be fair, FFlogs can be faulted for that to a certain extent. Prior to Shadowbringers, logs only credited personal DPS as its sole ranking factor. This meant all selfish jobs weren't considered valuable since they actively hurt the logs of everyone else. Had that system stayed in place, Black Mage and Samurai would once again be suffering.

Now with that all said, Samurai certainly needed some buffs damage wise but rotationally, it was fine. The whole change to Hagekure made very little sense, especially given the new system is far less intuitive and rather clunky. Of course, that's only my opinion.

[Melichoir]

It wasn't, though. SAM was the worst Melee DPS by a large margin. Even at the end it forever fell under the shadow of SMN, BLM, NIN, and MNK for a slot. It was only ever seriously used on O12S's door boss. It definitely needed changes and I firmly believe current SAM is better then Stormblood SAM.

It was because these other roles had utility that made them worthwhile. Sam as a class was plenty fine as a damage class just that it didnt do that substantially more damage to warrant it not having raid utility. But it was fine as a dps class in terms of dealing damage.

[Valkyrie_Lenneth]

To be fair, FFlogs can be faulted for that to a certain extent. Prior to Shadowbringers, logs only credited personal DPS as its sole ranking factor. This meant all selfish jobs weren't considered valuable since they actively hurt the logs of everyone else. Had that system stayed in place, Black Mage and Samurai would once again be suffering.

Now with that all said, Samurai certainly needed some buffs damage wise but rotationally, it was fine. The whole change to Hagekure made very little sense, especially given the new system is far less intuitive and rather clunky. Of course, that's only my opinion.

The new system for Sam works fine, especially after they added hagakure back in.


I've had no issues with SAM since the changes. It's not clunky at all.

[Payotz]

I think the only reason why they changed SAM is because people that raid with it barely Midare'd.
They would just build 3 Sen, hakagure'd then spam Shinten, then Midare if Hakagure is on cooldown.
This made SAM really flexible but it put what's supposed to be the Job's main defining move on the back burner for an OGCD spam.

New SAM pretty much changed that by putting more emphasis in the Midare rather than the Shintens because of Tsubame.
The only problem is that SAM isn't that flexible anymore, and they have to follow a strict 1 minute rotation so Midares can go into Tsubame with no drifting.

IMO, I really like new SAM. It's really comfy, knowing that you just have to follow a 1 minute. It's kinda like Stormblood MCH.

[Shurrikhan]

It wasn't, though. SAM was the worst Melee DPS by a large margin. Even at the end it forever fell under the shadow of SMN, BLM, NIN, and MNK for a slot. It was only ever seriously used on O12S's door boss. It definitely needed changes and I firmly believe current SAM is better then Stormblood SAM.

No, by the end of the expansion it performed within less than a percent of those jobs, so long as it was played in its optimal comp, which was just as much a concern for SMN, MNK, DRG, BRD, MCH, and arguably BLM.

I can agree with you that, now that Hagakure is no longer a trap and Tsubame-Gaeshi has been smoothed out, current SAM is better than Stormblood's, but rDPS balance in top-tier play at at the end of Stormblood was some of the tightest, likely, in MMO history. Its only issue was that they each fit only into certain comps for optimal play.

[Kaiserdrache]

I hope that with 6.0, when the Expansion comes that finishes the whole Zodiark/Garlemald War Arc once and for all finally, so that the storytelling gets finally a new theme and character progression reaches with it hopefully directly 99, not 90, that the developers with make one big job overall with just everything including redesigns where neccessaery to skills, to gameplay mechanics of classes and their buffs n debuffs, to make all jobs once and for al ready and balanced for basically ENDGAME CONTENT, that doen't increase after reaching 99 anymore Max Level or ILvl, because that last exapansion should offer then already a final ILvl of 999 that players will reach slowly then by just upgrading, enhancing, refining and enchanting the games last endgame gear often enough, until that cap has been reached, instead of adding every few patches always new stuff to grind, when everything thats needed about that new stuff basically, are only the item skins

6.0 should add final advanced Master Job Classes to give each Job Class more depth and interesting and fun to use features, while also making sure that each class gets more unique.
The problem with the homogenization of healers and tanks is, that SE has to make sure that they can fulfill their roles same as efficient everywhere in the game, as like other jobs of the same role

This root problem is it, why tanks n healers feel so much being the same in skill design, because especially tanks n healers have to fulfill in the game's combat designs certain tasks, that they might not be able to do, if their skill designs differentiate beween each other too drastically

Thats the point, where this game needs a heavy redesign in its Role Skill section.
If you want to see ever a FF14, where all jobs feel being truly unique among their same role, then has SE to make sure, that their whole Basic Skill Sets of say 28 Skills per Class are truly unique, but each job should have also always 4 free seperate skill slots that are only there for Role Skills based on a big amount of choosable options, not like only 4-5 or so, which change their effects based on which job of a role uses them, and these role based job scaling skills make then sure, that each job can fullfil everywhere in the game their tasks, even if they don't have in their base skill sets maybe not a skill to fulfill everywhere everything

With this design would have all jobs maximum 32 Skills, absolute enough and perfectly fitting also for console players to get 2 skill bars a 16 skills each full to swap between those two back n forth.
Role Skills should be used to compensate with your job a few things, where maybe an other job of the same job would be in your opinion the better choice, so that you can tweak with them a bit your gameplay of your job.

See Role Skills more like Job Modifiers, because thats it, how in essence Role Skills should work, so that SE can focus themself for each Job's 28 Base Skills to make them more unique, depthful n stand out in gameplay, compared to the other job's of the same role.

What do I mean with Master Jobs?

Simple, something like

Astologist > Chronomancer
Scholar > Scientist
White Mage > Sage
Summoner > Ritualist
Red Mage > Spellblade
Black Mage > Arch Mage
Machinist > Engineer
Bard > Minstrel
Monk > Champion
Ninja > Assassin
Dragoon > Dragon Rider
Samurai > Shogun
Dancer > Swashbuckler
Paladin > Crusader
Dark Knight > Shadow Ruler
Gunbreaker > Queensguard
Warrior > Berserker

This helps also making the existing jobs more interesting, without needing to add for everything always new classes, so that it would look like this

1-30 > Base Class
31- 80 > First Job
81-99 > Master Job
End of vertical Progression > Endgame Content designed for Players witg Lvl 81-99 Master Job
Horizontal Progression in focus then after 6.0