The current job design system is not fit for purpose

[Derio]

Button bloat. PLD still has the most buttons.

In 6.0 all healers need a rework. Monk, DRK, and BRD need a complete rework.

SCH was the worst thing that happened in shadowbringers.

[Payotz]

Button bloat. PLD still has the most buttons.

In 6.0 all healers need a rework. Monk, DRK, and BRD need a complete rework.

SCH was the worst thing that happened in shadowbringers.

DNC should've never been added as a Physical Ranged, it should've been added as a healer. Stripping BRD of its utility just for the sake of adding a new job is like stripping PLD of its magic rotation just for the sake of adding Rune Knight. BRD lost its identity just because "uhhhh there's only 2 phys ranged dps, we need a third one!!!!".

I still do not understand why SE had to introduce MORE clunk to SCH. Why would they force you to stop casting to use fairy abilities?
The draw SCH had for me was the ability to micro the fairy in addition to my actual character. Casting Broil while repositioning the fairy and casting WD to an area was the most fun I had.

WHM is pretty much the only healer I personally enjoy playing this expansion, which I would've never thought I would say back in Stormblood.

I'm personally disappointed about the DRK rework. I did not expect them to just literally slap a My Chemical Romance album to WAR and call it DRK.
I would've personally preferred Dark Arts back rather than Edge and Flood of Shadow. Delirium BS spam isn't even as satisfying as WAR's IR spam.

Though I understand why they had to remove WAR's old "Tank stance" kit, I wish that they could've found a way to leave it. I miss spinning in dungeons, and healing to max hp. I miss spamming Inner Beast to stay alive when healers are struggling. I miss the feel of WAR being the tank with the highest hp because of the Tank stance boost. It really felt like WAR's an unstoppable beast, where now it's just the axe guy.

I haven't really played PLD this expansion, and haven't maxed out GNB yet, but GNB's the most fun tank I've played this expansion. It's like it's the only tank that wasn't gutted (obviously because it's the new job), and it's the only tank that has the old Stormblood job design philosophy which I loved. Lots of buttons to press to make me feel like an absolute gamer, and the rotation flowing so good.

I like the battle and story content in this expansion, but half of the job changes have me baffled.
Why are they forcing every job to have a minimum amount of abilities? Is it to just sell more Commander Gamepads?

I wish SE would reconsider ADDING more abilities, and more complexity back into the Jobs. I would rather prefer half of the jobs to go back to their Stormblood iterations, and half of them stay in their Shadowbringers iterations, with the current battle content and story content.

[RyuDragnier]

I'm personally disappointed about the DRK rework. I did not expect them to just literally slap a My Chemical Romance album to WAR and call it DRK.
I would've personally preferred Dark Arts back rather than Edge and Flood of Shadow. Delirium BS spam isn't even as satisfying as WAR's IR spam.

I'd rather delete DRK from the game than to ever deal with DA spam again. Seriously, that was the least fun thing in this game, and I think Edge and Flood are better than that nonsense. I do agree however that they could have done a lot more. I don't like that DRK is the only tank with a single DPS combo, and a return of our HW combo would have been greatly appreciated.

[shao32]

I'd rather delete DRK from the game than to ever deal with DA spam again. Seriously, that was the least fun thing in this game, and I think Edge and Flood are better than that nonsense. I do agree however that they could have done a lot more. I don't like that DRK is the only tank with a single DPS combo, and a return of our HW combo would have been greatly appreciated.

well to be fair asking to dark arts come back doesn't mean bring back the level of dark arts spam back, i will love dark arts come back as a HW rate, still i didn't mind the SB one but HW one was the sweet spot.

[RyuDragnier]

well to be fair asking to dark arts come back doesn't mean bring back the level of dark arts spam back, i will love dark arts come back as a HW rate, still i didn't mind the SB one but HW one was the sweet spot.

HW DRK was basically perfection. It didn't need to be touched, it didn't need changes. Sadly that didn't stop SE from "fixing" what didn't need to be fixed. I'm sadly expecting GNB to get a similar treatment for the next expansion, while the "golden boy" PLD will be untouched yet again, and probably get more things it doesn't need that will be ripped from the other tanks (no, I still won't forgive them for destroying HW DRK to give PLD things it didn't need).

[Melichoir]

I'm personally disappointed about the DRK rework. I did not expect them to just literally slap a My Chemical Romance album to WAR and call it DRK.
I would've personally preferred Dark Arts back rather than Edge and Flood of Shadow. Delirium BS spam isn't even as satisfying as WAR's IR spam.

This made me laugh pretty good.

But yeah, There is nothing engaging about Delirium. It's do your combo till you can use it, then pop the CD and smash your BS hotkey till the timer runs out. The reason it works better for Warrior is that you have to manage a lot more with IR, along with lining it up with two OGCDs, and balancing it against Infuriate as to not overcap on that. There is a lot more nuance to it. DRK used to have that nuance with DA because you had to control when you did it in the oGCD but also manage mana to maximize damage during your burst windows. Now its as I described above - push a combo 3 times, press CD, spam Bloodspiller. Thats it. The only nuance is making sure yu have enough SKS to get 5 BS inside the window.

I'd rather delete DRK from the game than to ever deal with DA spam again. Seriously, that was the least fun thing in this game, and I think Edge and Flood are better than that nonsense. I do agree however that they could have done a lot more. I don't like that DRK is the only tank with a single DPS combo, and a return of our HW combo would have been greatly appreciated.

Honestly I share Payotz opinion. DA is infinitely more interesting to do than the current iteration. Right now its just less carpal tunnel, but its spam all the same. Use EoS until you hve 3k mana left and get your blood gauge up to spam out BS under Delirium. It's disappointingly brain dead.


That being said, dont return HW combo to us. Give us back HW DRK. It was a difficult kit, but it was fun. HW DRK is easily the pinnacle of DRK IMO.

[Recon1o6]

Snip

With regards to baffling changes, its only the minority are baffling. Baffling is confusion, the majority this expansion are somewhere between anger, despair and pure frustration

They didn't even need to scrap Bard's support entirely just because Dancer was coming in. It would have occupied a nice trio:
Mch high personal dps, low utility
bard good dps, good utility
dancer low dps, high utility

As for amount of abilities it sure seems like they either hate new ones, or enjoy spinning a wheel to decide what number to have total with the amount of upgrades, removed skills and readded skills while still keeping around useless or overly niche ones (shirk, cure 1, bloodbath, a chunk of monk's abilities)

Personally, somehting the devs need to start doing is to stop reducing things for accessibility/balance and start raising the skill floors and ceilings to make things fun. If by level 80 people don't push all the buttons they need to and stand in the aoes, then they need to go back to hall of the novice
The devs need to remember that some jobs are allowed ot be harder to play than others. That's why different gameplay styles are enjoyed, some like a straightforward thing, others like to have to thin about how to use their job

[Billythepancake]

DNC should've never been added as a Physical Ranged, it should've been added as a healer.

I'm glad dancer is a DPS, personally. I'd have hated to see how SE would've ruined a 4th healer this expac.

[KalinOrthos]

Anyone who says Ninja, Monk, Dragoon, and Samurai, or Black Mage, Summoner and Red Mage, or Dancer, Bard, and Machinist feel similar are absolutely full of it, or are just looking from the outside in. The tanks have the issue of feeling rather homogenized, true, but Gunbreaker and Paladin still have enough uniqueness to them to make them feel different enough to play and have fun with. Dark Knight also has a lot of ability expression as well, though at times it can feel just as shallow as Warrior, which 100% got the short end of the stick this expansion. Can't feel too bad about that last one, though, they were kings of the mountain for a LOOOONG time.

[Melichoir]

Anyone who says Ninja, Monk, Dragoon, and Samurai, or Black Mage, Summoner and Red Mage, or Dancer, Bard, and Machinist feel similar are absolutely full of it, or are just looking from the outside in. The tanks have the issue of feeling rather homogenized, true, but Gunbreaker and Paladin still have enough uniqueness to them to make them feel different enough to play and have fun with. Dark Knight also has a lot of ability expression as well, though at times it can feel just as shallow as Warrior, which 100% got the short end of the stick this expansion. Can't feel too bad about that last one, though, they were kings of the mountain for a LOOOONG time.

The thing is that GNB feels like its own thing by a vastly wider margin when compared to other tanks, compared to when you compare PLD to DRK and War. Its noticeable.

PLD is more unique compared to DRK and War, but it still does have part of the same issue: Use a CD to spam a single skill multiple times for the duration. It's not as bad as War adn DRK but it still needs some work. Why even have such a skill when you literally have a class that has a shield. There's a lot of creativity they could have that revolves around Shields that wouldnt need them to resort to letting PLD be a caster for 10 seconds. And as for War, I think that stems from an issue with numbers and the flexibility of Holmgang.