The current job design system is not fit for purpose

[Floortank]

I'm enjoying all the jobs and I understand why they overlap in places.

[Reyna_Balmore]

I agree with the majoirty of what you said.....sadly this game is becoming more of a place holder MMORPG with every patch \ expansion that goes by.

[Melichoir]

Snip.

I typically agree with a great deal but I dont know what the solution would. It's pretty easy to say Homogenization is pure cancer and is bad for the game, but there is the flip side where you had synergy and meta issues that would preclude certain classes from being effective in expert and savage content. Yes, in some ways the classes should definitely be more in line with one another so youre not relying on a specific class in your group to be functional.

The only thing I can think of is they need to have classes focus on themes and just have the numbers match up. As an example, the devs are relying too heavily on the "Spam and Burst" mechanic for 3 of the tanks. This would be Delirium, IR, and Requiescat - skills that promote spamming 1 damage ability 5 or 6 times until the buff timer. This shouldnt be a thing. GNB as a class proves you do not need to have a tank have this mechanic to be functional. Instead, the tanks should all be designed to operate in their own way and have their own look and feel. For me (and I know that I am a minority when it comes to this opinion) DRK in SB is vastly superior playstyle to the current iteration of DRK. DA spam gives people carpal tunnel, but the managing of it was much more interesting and rewarding than the current DRK iteration. And to be frank, HW DRK was funner to play than SB DRK.

Point is they need to redesign these classes to feel more thematically consistent and design them playstyle first and just plug and tweak numbers until they all get roughly the same consistent DPS output. I know thats an oversimplification, but Im just annoyed how these classes are just to similar thematically. Why is it that PLD, the only class with a SHIELD, does not utilize that aspect in its attacks and CDs? DRK is really the only class that seems to use Magic and is magic orientated (yes pld was HL and Clemency, but thats it compared to Unleash, Unmend, EoS/FoS, Dark Mind, AD, TBN, and etc. The class really has the whole magic vibe with it.) Warriors should literally be Hulk Smash. Give them big weapons with big smash damage. They kinda do it currently so I guess that works out.

If you can design GNB to feel like its own tank and not be a copy/paste of the other 3, why is it so hard to d that with the others.

[Stanelis]

OP post

Veteran's have been saying this for years but Se doesn't listen. The issue with homogeneisation is the party size is a fixed number (4 or 8), so different jobs cannot have too different abilities and effects relative to their role, because it would lead to some classes being used over others (that s what happened with paladin and warrior at the beginning of 2.X).

[Derio]

Button bloat. PLD still has the most buttons.

In 6.0 all healers need a rework. Monk, DRK, and BRD need a complete rework.

SCH was the worst thing that happened in shadowbringers.

[Payotz]

Button bloat. PLD still has the most buttons.

In 6.0 all healers need a rework. Monk, DRK, and BRD need a complete rework.

SCH was the worst thing that happened in shadowbringers.

DNC should've never been added as a Physical Ranged, it should've been added as a healer. Stripping BRD of its utility just for the sake of adding a new job is like stripping PLD of its magic rotation just for the sake of adding Rune Knight. BRD lost its identity just because "uhhhh there's only 2 phys ranged dps, we need a third one!!!!".

I still do not understand why SE had to introduce MORE clunk to SCH. Why would they force you to stop casting to use fairy abilities?
The draw SCH had for me was the ability to micro the fairy in addition to my actual character. Casting Broil while repositioning the fairy and casting WD to an area was the most fun I had.

WHM is pretty much the only healer I personally enjoy playing this expansion, which I would've never thought I would say back in Stormblood.

I'm personally disappointed about the DRK rework. I did not expect them to just literally slap a My Chemical Romance album to WAR and call it DRK.
I would've personally preferred Dark Arts back rather than Edge and Flood of Shadow. Delirium BS spam isn't even as satisfying as WAR's IR spam.

Though I understand why they had to remove WAR's old "Tank stance" kit, I wish that they could've found a way to leave it. I miss spinning in dungeons, and healing to max hp. I miss spamming Inner Beast to stay alive when healers are struggling. I miss the feel of WAR being the tank with the highest hp because of the Tank stance boost. It really felt like WAR's an unstoppable beast, where now it's just the axe guy.

I haven't really played PLD this expansion, and haven't maxed out GNB yet, but GNB's the most fun tank I've played this expansion. It's like it's the only tank that wasn't gutted (obviously because it's the new job), and it's the only tank that has the old Stormblood job design philosophy which I loved. Lots of buttons to press to make me feel like an absolute gamer, and the rotation flowing so good.

I like the battle and story content in this expansion, but half of the job changes have me baffled.
Why are they forcing every job to have a minimum amount of abilities? Is it to just sell more Commander Gamepads?

I wish SE would reconsider ADDING more abilities, and more complexity back into the Jobs. I would rather prefer half of the jobs to go back to their Stormblood iterations, and half of them stay in their Shadowbringers iterations, with the current battle content and story content.

[Billythepancake]

DNC should've never been added as a Physical Ranged, it should've been added as a healer.

I'm glad dancer is a DPS, personally. I'd have hated to see how SE would've ruined a 4th healer this expac.

[RyuDragnier]

I'm personally disappointed about the DRK rework. I did not expect them to just literally slap a My Chemical Romance album to WAR and call it DRK.
I would've personally preferred Dark Arts back rather than Edge and Flood of Shadow. Delirium BS spam isn't even as satisfying as WAR's IR spam.

I'd rather delete DRK from the game than to ever deal with DA spam again. Seriously, that was the least fun thing in this game, and I think Edge and Flood are better than that nonsense. I do agree however that they could have done a lot more. I don't like that DRK is the only tank with a single DPS combo, and a return of our HW combo would have been greatly appreciated.

[Recon1o6]

Snip

With regards to baffling changes, its only the minority are baffling. Baffling is confusion, the majority this expansion are somewhere between anger, despair and pure frustration

They didn't even need to scrap Bard's support entirely just because Dancer was coming in. It would have occupied a nice trio:
Mch high personal dps, low utility
bard good dps, good utility
dancer low dps, high utility

As for amount of abilities it sure seems like they either hate new ones, or enjoy spinning a wheel to decide what number to have total with the amount of upgrades, removed skills and readded skills while still keeping around useless or overly niche ones (shirk, cure 1, bloodbath, a chunk of monk's abilities)

Personally, somehting the devs need to start doing is to stop reducing things for accessibility/balance and start raising the skill floors and ceilings to make things fun. If by level 80 people don't push all the buttons they need to and stand in the aoes, then they need to go back to hall of the novice
The devs need to remember that some jobs are allowed ot be harder to play than others. That's why different gameplay styles are enjoyed, some like a straightforward thing, others like to have to thin about how to use their job

[shao32]

I'd rather delete DRK from the game than to ever deal with DA spam again. Seriously, that was the least fun thing in this game, and I think Edge and Flood are better than that nonsense. I do agree however that they could have done a lot more. I don't like that DRK is the only tank with a single DPS combo, and a return of our HW combo would have been greatly appreciated.

well to be fair asking to dark arts come back doesn't mean bring back the level of dark arts spam back, i will love dark arts come back as a HW rate, still i didn't mind the SB one but HW one was the sweet spot.