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  1. #21
    Player
    MerlinCross's Avatar
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    Aug 2015
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    387
    Character
    Lavitz Orlandeau
    World
    Mateus
    Main Class
    Samurai Lv 80
    Quote Originally Posted by Maeka View Post
    So.... I'm going to have to say a few unpopular things.
    I had a big post ready to go, but I don't want to really take OP's topic and turn it into another battle ground about Tanks.

    I just ask, when was the last time you leveled a Job and when did it become fun?

    Cause each expansion they seem to be pushing that "You get to have fun now" further back by pushing the more useful skills/complete experience back further and further.

    I can argue a LOT about some things and be argued back in turn but I think most people here can agree on something. Low level in FF14 is a pain/annoying.

    It's just to bad they keep raising the cap on what seems to be "Low Level". Is that a scheme to sell jump potions?
    (2)

  2. #22
    Player
    Mithia's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Posts
    74
    Character
    Mithia Wryght
    World
    Phoenix
    Main Class
    Paladin Lv 80
    I can argue against that by saying that they make you start with your core abilities and only later will you get the abilities that aren't as important but good usage of them will definitely make you stand out.
    (1)

  3. #23
    Player
    Maeka's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    1,281
    Character
    Maeka Blazewing
    World
    Cactuar
    Main Class
    Gladiator Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by MerlinCross View Post
    I had a big post ready to go, but I don't want to really take OP's topic and turn it into another battle ground about Tanks.

    I just ask, when was the last time you leveled a Job and when did it become fun?

    Cause each expansion they seem to be pushing that "You get to have fun now" further back by pushing the more useful skills/complete experience back further and further.

    I can argue a LOT about some things and be argued back in turn but I think most people here can agree on something. Low level in FF14 is a pain/annoying.

    It's just to bad they keep raising the cap on what seems to be "Low Level". Is that a scheme to sell jump potions?
    I have all jobs on Level 80, and from doing so many leveling roulettes getting anything between Sastasha and Gulg, I'd have to say that I've a decent idea of what several jobs are like during the various levels now.

    In fact, just today, I got the final weapon (BLM's) from the Resistance. You can check me on Lodestone if you don't believe me (Maeka Blazewing @ Cactaur).

    I would have to say that I had reasonable fun leveling them all (except for BLM in SB+. I hate Enochian. I really really do).

    Early level dungeons can feel like a bit of a slog now and then, I get that. For some reason, SE thinks that players' minds will implode if they have more than 3 buttons to push. However, I DID notice that they do give you some buttons early. Such as Spirits Within being a Lv30-ish skill now, for example. That used to be Lv45+ IIRC.

    I also remember when Paladins had no AoE beyond Circle of Scorn when you had to tab-target mobs constantly to dump savage blades (remember that pointless skill?) and rage of halones trying to keep junk on you.

    Or how about Flash? Did anybody ever care about the Blindness effect? Heck a lot of newbie Paladins never used Flash and couldn't figure out why the mobs were always chewing on the healers because quite frankly, the skill seemed like a waste of time to somebody who didn't know any better.

    So it isn't Quite as bad as it used to be in expansions past, as far as skills at lower levels. And I'm certainly liking the faster dungeon clears due to more jobs having more AoEs. Now if only we could fix MNK and DRG having to wait so long to get theirs.
    (4)
    Last edited by Maeka; 05-13-2020 at 03:32 AM.

  4. #24
    Player
    Claire_Pendragon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Limsa Lominsa
    Posts
    1,564
    Character
    Claire Pendragon
    World
    Mateus
    Main Class
    Red Mage Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by Venur View Post
    prior the paladin gameplay was just spam flash...
    that was never PLD.
    1.0 was a circular sword swing AoE (forget its name.)
    2.0 was flash 1-2 times to establish general threat. (Mostly for the healer) followed by tab target single target rotation, in order to both keep threat up on the right targets, and to do more DPS. (Supplemental flash for the blind effect, if needed for some reason)
    3.0 Now you can try to throw out DoTs if you're able to. Otherwise identical to 2.0 PLD (Risky, but possible)
    4.0 Now you just use total eclipse to AoE targets, until the number of enemies lowered to a number in which single target rotation did more DPS. (Flash was still usable for its blind effect, and initial pull threat. This is adding an action, but actually simplifying PLD a tiny bit from 3.0 PLD, despite having its original tools still.)

    PLD never spammed flash. Heck, at the start of ARR flash had a 3.5s GCD, since spells were all universally given a 3.5s GCD (this was quickly changed to 2.5, since everyone hated it, and it made tanking a whole group of mobs nearly impossible by the 3rd GCD)

    Depending on your groups total DPS, and if they chose to single target or AoE (because some people/jobs didnt follow the normal) you would have to reactively decide how to do DPS to trash pulls.
    Now there is no decision, its just, Do the usual DPS rotation, it doesnt change. Luckily PLD has more actions that require more effort than most of the tanks. with WAR and DRK semi in the middle, since they have to aim 2 of their AoEs, and GNB just stands there mashing the same 2(3) step AoE combo at max level. (Referring to AoE, as it was misunderstood that this post is all about AoE. Mostly GCDs.)
    (0)
    Last edited by Claire_Pendragon; 05-13-2020 at 12:04 PM.
    CLAIRE PENDRAGON

  5. #25
    Player
    MerlinCross's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2015
    Posts
    387
    Character
    Lavitz Orlandeau
    World
    Mateus
    Main Class
    Samurai Lv 80
    Quote Originally Posted by Maeka View Post
    I have all jobs on Level 80, and from doing so many leveling roulettes getting anything between Sastasha and Gulg, I'd have to say that I've a decent idea of what several jobs are like during the various levels now.

    In fact, just today, I got the final weapon (BLM's) from the Resistance. You can check me on Lodestone if you don't believe me (Maeka Blazewing @ Cactaur).

    I would have to say that I had reasonable fun leveling them all (except for BLM in SB+. I hate Enochian. I really really do).

    Early level dungeons can feel like a bit of a slog now and then, I get that. For some reason, SE thinks that players' minds will implode if they have more than 3 buttons to push. However, I DID notice that they do give you some buttons early. Such as Spirits Within being a Lv30-ish skill now, for example. That used to be Lv45+ IIRC.

    I also remember when Paladins had no AoE beyond Circle of Scorn when you had to tab-target mobs constantly to dump savage blades (remember that pointless skill?) and rage of halones trying to keep junk on you.

    Or how about Flash? Did anybody ever care about the Blindness effect? Heck a lot of newbie Paladins never used Flash and couldn't figure out why the mobs were always chewing on the healers because quite frankly, the skill seemed like a waste of time to somebody who didn't know any better.

    So it isn't Quite as bad as it used to be in expansions past, as far as skills at lower levels. And I'm certainly liking the faster dungeon clears due to more jobs having more AoEs. Now if only we could fix MNK and DRG having to wait so long to get theirs.
    I didn't ask did you have fun leveling them all, I asked when did the fun kick in? When did it start clicking, when did it feel you started to get a good handle on the class, when did the game start allowing you to have fun? Cause as an example, Ninja has always kinda suffered from highs and lows to me based on some of the unlocks; some were useful others dead weight such as Smoke Screen(YES, I know Smoke Screen was very VERY good for Raids but on leveling content that was basically a dead unlock). You brought up DRG and MNK, are they not as a fun because they don't get their AoE's earlier?

    Also, no I don't recall those days. I do recall the days of 2 unleash and then just using scorne on everything as DRK. Now I just stand in place as WAR and hit my two buttons if the game decides I'm at a level to get those. Exciting game play.

    Look I'm not saying what we had before was better but I question the idea of "Fixing AoE" with just one more attack that I keep seeing going around. And if Speed is the reason, maybe just cut down on the amount of trash or HP of them. Most trash is trash; just there to slow you down or be a speedbump of uninteresting. Lowering the amount lets us get to the more interesting fights(Though Item Level these days makes some fights over before they get started).

    And the Flash thing could have been explained but I do feel like I'm missing a CD or two when doing low level PLD stuff, almost like that was designed on the idea you might have a blind. Does Flash being gone make it impossible? No Item Level makes everything better and they more than likely did take that into account, but when I was leveling it up, I kept feeling like I didn't have enough CDs for the content I was doing. I can only spam Shelltron so much.

    That's not a good feeling to have as a Tank.

    But getting back to OP, no, trash is boring it mainly worthless regardless of how late into the game you get. At the start of the expansion, yeah okay that always messes people up but I think most people have a handle of it so you should be fine unless you or the rest of the party mess up royally. The bosses are better and there are some enemies/dungeons that need more attention but there's a reason most Tanks are rumored to have Netflix/Youtube in the background.

    Get to Trials/Raids/EX/Savage and then it becomes more interesting but no, trash rarely gets exciting.
    (0)
    Last edited by MerlinCross; 05-13-2020 at 07:54 AM.

  6. #26
    Player
    Maeka's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    1,281
    Character
    Maeka Blazewing
    World
    Cactuar
    Main Class
    Gladiator Lv 90
    Luckily PLD has more actions that require more effort than most of the tanks. with WAR and DRK semi in the middle, since they have to aim 2 of their AoEs, and GNB just stands there mashing the same combo at max level.
    Um......say what?

    GNB "mashing the same combo at max level"?

    Have you played GNB?

    You have a 3-button combo to build a charge. Once you build a charge, you get a six button combo that's on a short (IIRC, 30 second?) cooldown and a single-button spender of that charge if it's on cooldown.

    No other class in the game has a 6 button combo unless you want to count Mudras and even that isn't 6-button, it's only 4. DRG also has a 5-button combo but nobody else gets a 6. And not only is it a 6 button combo, but it's also beside the standard 3 button combo everybody else has.

    @Merlincross:

    Depends on the job. To be honest, the 3-button combo and the 2-button AoE combo is mostly the meat of what tanks do in dungeons. You get the 3-button combo around Lv28-30 from what I could see, and .. well, you have to stick with a 1-button AoE until Stormblood usually. But I can live with that, though for some weird reason, DRK has to wait way longer than anybody else to get their 2nd AoE ability. But I would suppose it's because they have the AoE MP-Spender.

    So, most tanks start to feel OK around the Lv30-ish. About the time you get into Haukke or Qarn, and certainly by Stone Vigil, your job starts to feel more complete, just missing some extra stuff they add on later, like Holy Circle, Req, Clemency, etc. But you don't really need those, as you don't really take that much damage quite yet. Then once you get into each expansion's dungeons, the added complexity to the battles starts kicking in, and you start to get these abilities one by one, it's a gradual build-up of fun.

    I will agree that none of the jobs except DNC feel good in Sastasha, Tam-Tara, or Copperbell despite how hilarious it is to speedrun Tam-Tara in 6-8 minutes with 2 DNC and a GNB lol.

    EDIT: I forgot about Raiden Thrust. Sorry. DRG does get a 6. But that's at Lv80. Also, RDM gets a 5.
    (2)
    Last edited by Maeka; 05-13-2020 at 09:17 AM.

  7. #27
    Player
    Claire_Pendragon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Limsa Lominsa
    Posts
    1,564
    Character
    Claire Pendragon
    World
    Mateus
    Main Class
    Red Mage Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by Maeka View Post
    Um......say what?
    I was referring to tank AoE, which is what the Op was originally bringing up, and my comment on the other persons "PLDs flash only" statement.
    Obviously not GNBs single target. GNBs GCD AoE is a 2 step, with a procced 3rd step, that can be done at any point in the 2 step. This is effectively a 3 step combo. (The only exception is when using both stacks for burst phases. Followed by going back to 1>2>3)
    (1)
    Last edited by Claire_Pendragon; 05-13-2020 at 12:06 PM.
    CLAIRE PENDRAGON

  8. #28
    Player
    BarretOblivion's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2017
    Posts
    408
    Character
    Tamamo Cat
    World
    Hyperion
    Main Class
    Gunbreaker Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by Maeka View Post
    Um......say what?

    GNB "mashing the same combo at max level"?

    Have you played GNB?

    You have a 3-button combo to build a charge. Once you build a charge, you get a six button combo that's on a short (IIRC, 30 second?) cooldown and a single-button spender of that charge if it's on cooldown.

    No other class in the game has a 6 button combo unless you want to count Mudras and even that isn't 6-button, it's only 4. DRG also has a 5-button combo but nobody else gets a 6. And not only is it a 6 button combo, but it's also beside the standard 3 button combo everybody else has.

    @Merlincross:

    Depends on the job. To be honest, the 3-button combo and the 2-button AoE combo is mostly the meat of what tanks do in dungeons. You get the 3-button combo around Lv28-30 from what I could see, and .. well, you have to stick with a 1-button AoE until Stormblood usually. But I can live with that, though for some weird reason, DRK has to wait way longer than anybody else to get their 2nd AoE ability. But I would suppose it's because they have the AoE MP-Spender.

    So, most tanks start to feel OK around the Lv30-ish. About the time you get into Haukke or Qarn, and certainly by Stone Vigil, your job starts to feel more complete, just missing some extra stuff they add on later, like Holy Circle, Req, Clemency, etc. But you don't really need those, as you don't really take that much damage quite yet. Then once you get into each expansion's dungeons, the added complexity to the battles starts kicking in, and you start to get these abilities one by one, it's a gradual build-up of fun.

    I will agree that none of the jobs except DNC feel good in Sastasha, Tam-Tara, or Copperbell despite how hilarious it is to speedrun Tam-Tara in 6-8 minutes with 2 DNC and a GNB lol.

    EDIT: I forgot about Raiden Thrust. Sorry. DRG does get a 6. But that's at Lv80. Also, RDM gets a 5.
    As a top 5% GNB, he is correct. You get access to that other combo every 30 secs but you are using the same combo the entire fight, it just resets every minute you redo your opener again... and again... and again.... and again.
    (1)

  9. #29
    Player
    MerlinCross's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2015
    Posts
    387
    Character
    Lavitz Orlandeau
    World
    Mateus
    Main Class
    Samurai Lv 80
    Quote Originally Posted by Maeka View Post
    @Merlincross:

    Depends on the job. To be honest, the 3-button combo and the 2-button AoE combo is mostly the meat of what tanks do in dungeons. You get the 3-button combo around Lv28-30 from what I could see, and .. well, you have to stick with a 1-button AoE until Stormblood usually. But I can live with that, though for some weird reason, DRK has to wait way longer than anybody else to get their 2nd AoE ability. But I would suppose it's because they have the AoE MP-Spender.

    So, most tanks start to feel OK around the Lv30-ish. About the time you get into Haukke or Qarn, and certainly by Stone Vigil, your job starts to feel more complete, just missing some extra stuff they add on later, like Holy Circle, Req, Clemency, etc. But you don't really need those, as you don't really take that much damage quite yet. Then once you get into each expansion's dungeons, the added complexity to the battles starts kicking in, and you start to get these abilities one by one, it's a gradual build-up of fun.

    I will agree that none of the jobs except DNC feel good in Sastasha, Tam-Tara, or Copperbell despite how hilarious it is to speedrun Tam-Tara in 6-8 minutes with 2 DNC and a GNB lol.
    See I put it higher than that. Sure, our kit might be more 'complete' by Stone Vigil but there's still little to actually use the FULL MIGHT of the Kit on. This isn't just a tank issue either, DPS and Healers also have the same issue.

    Put a different way, there's nothing till Keeper of the Lake that actually requires much thought or attention, and after that I would say it takes about halfway into Heavensward to get interesting again with Arey.

    A Job might be more complete and have more things to do but nothing expects you to make full use of all your resources till a good ways in. This really makes something like Tanks unfun unless things are going south or people are doing dungeons new/blind but they're not the only Role that has an issue with this. Granted this is the fact of MMOs, old content is boring and just 'bleh' to run but I don't think I could play this game as a new player without someone to pull me in. I think I'd get bored if I was told "It gets better later".

    These days I have no idea waht that later is and can barely bring myself to level my old jobs. This is a seperate issue but I think strikes a cord with OP's question/topic. Leveling isn't terribly interesting outside of a couple points so they better get used to it now.
    (0)

  10. #30
    Player
    Venur's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2016
    Posts
    129
    Character
    Nazmul Souless
    World
    Goblin
    Main Class
    Samurai Lv 74
    Many of you should probably take a brake from the game. Poeple tend to get bored of playing the same game and start to feel nostalgia.

    Pld and the leveling game in general have drasticaly improved over the years but I think you just got bored to run the same content.

    Leveling a pld used to be so dry That Ive never reached lvl 30 on that class prior 5.0.

    Personaly Im not missing the days I was getting mad at blm who would spam too early and snag aggro from my warrior.
    (3)

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