A summary of healer issues

[ty_taurus]

On the one hand, it would be cool. On the other hand, it would make shield healers even more desirable. They are already way better than regen healers because everything is a mitigation check where avoiding taking damage altogether is always better than eating the damage and then healing it up.

If the goal is to try and reinforce this pure/barrier split, then having mechanics that demand pure healing and barrier healing would make sense. That of course means both need to be enforced, and also that there’s no healer that isn’t just as—if not better than the opposite role at their own game. Sage having extremely accessible regens and an effective 900 potency DPS neutral heal when their barriers are either a DPS loss or are at 2-4 times the length in cooldown, I’m looking at you.

[ForsakenRoe]

See, that's why I think the split is a silly idea. If you want two healers to deal with 'Pure Healing' (or, bulk HP restoration in hard hitting scenarios like Harrowing Hell) and two to deal with mitigation/applying barriers (ie reducing the damage dealt by the hits of Harrowing Hell) then the end result of following that idea to its logical conclusion is that the two healers that do Pure Healing don't care about mitigation, and the two healers that do Mitigation/Barrier stuff don't care about Pure Healing. Effectively, all that this does is lock out the healers from interacting with the opposite side of 'healing design'.

As an example, WHM cannot mitigate things outside of Temperance. Why? WHM in older games has Protect, and in some games (eg 10) Nul-Element spells that protect the party from certain elemental magic damage. It's okay to take a design position of 'WHM is not as good as other healers at mitigating damage, but is incredible at healing after the damage is dealt', but by preventing it from, for example, using Lilies to apply raidwide shields, it just can't interact with any Barrier related mechanics. That then follows into 'we cannot have something that functions as a Barrier Check of sorts (eg Photon in A11S/TEA, Vulcan Burst in Ifrit EX/UWU, etc) in 4man content, because we can't guarantee that the DF will provide a healer that has accessible Barriers'. It just hampers content design, for very little gain. Especially considering that Barrier Healers can do Pure Healing to an extent, because of things like 'Recitation Indom', or 'Zoe Pneuma', or the stupid Regen effects on Sacred Soil/Kerachole that are so strong, they actually powercreep Indom and Ixochole

It's not like WHM should suddenly be the best at mitigation, either. I just think it'd allow for much more freedom of design for content, if WHM was able to apply Barriers (that are slightly weaker than SCH/SGE), via Lilies. If SCH can Pure Heal because of Aetherflow, or SGE via Addersgall, Physis, Holos (it heals too), Zoe-Pneuma, then WHM should be allowed to apply a Barrier via Lilies. It'd also mean that, when we need to prep Misery, we can get some value out of the Lily being spent even if the party is at full HP. And, it'd synergize with Plenary Indulgence, since, if the Barrier application doesn't have a heal attached (eg it's just a flat 250p shield, compared to SCH/SGE's 320p plus heal), then there's less chance that BarrierLily + Plenary would overheal

[vetch]

On the one hand, it would be cool. On the other hand, it would make shield healers even more desirable. They are already way better than regen healers because everything is a mitigation check where avoiding taking damage altogether is always better than eating the damage and then healing it up.

This could be easily addressed with things like uncleansable DoTs that deal direct health loss, something that wants strong spammable regens. The tech to deal a set amount of health loss ignoring shields and mitigation is in the game already but it's only used in LotA, IIRC.

They're not serious about the healer split or about healer engagement in general, though, so they don't bother.

[ty_taurus]

See, that's why I think the split is a silly idea. If you want two healers to deal with 'Pure Healing' (or, bulk HP restoration in hard hitting scenarios like Harrowing Hell) and two to deal with mitigation/applying barriers (ie reducing the damage dealt by the hits of Harrowing Hell) then the end result of following that idea to its logical conclusion is that the two healers that do Pure Healing don't care about mitigation, and the two healers that do Mitigation/Barrier stuff don't care about Pure Healing. Effectively, all that this does is lock out the healers from interacting with the opposite side of 'healing design'.

I'm not entirely against pure vs barrier healing if it were actually done well, but if I were going to lean into it, I think there is a way to resolve that issue. In order to explain, let me start by establishing what a healing action can cost.

Any given healing action will have some sort of cost: MP; DPS; mobility, cooldown, or other resources (such as lilies or aetherflow).

If White Mage is a pure healer, then their pure healing--their high-potency heals that allow them to resolve large healing checks effortlessly should be their primary method of healing and should come at minimal costs. Meanwhile, they can still have access to barrier and mitigation tools, but those actions feature all high costs. When paired with a barrier healer, the pure healer will generally rely on the barrier healer for those barrier mechanics, but can both assist and/or replace the barrier healer in a pinch at a steep cost. In other words it is significantly less efficient to be the barrier healer when you are the pure healer and vice versa.

Like with my Sage example, it makes a negative amount of sense to me why they have a 2 regens on a 30 second and 60 second cooldown respectively--the 30 second cooldown actually restoring your MP mind you, when all their barriers either cost them DPS or sit on 2 minute cooldowns. It should be the other way around. I should have a party-wide barrier on a 30 second and 60 second cooldown. And maybe I have a regen on a 120 second cooldown, or a regen spell that costs a major chunk of MP and costs me DPS.

But personally, I'd rather each healer have a more distinct healing style. Pure and barrier can be where those styles lean, but that each healer approaches both pure healing and barrier healing in their own unique ways. For example with barrier mechanics:

Scholar has large, single-use barriers that block most of the damage.
Sage directly reduces the damage taken by the party and has smaller, layered barriers.
White Mage extends the party's Max HP so that they can soak more damage.
Astrologian can cause damage to be staggered across several seconds.

They're all different and have different strengths and weaknesses, but all four of those are able to function as barrier and mitigation mechanics.

[ForsakenRoe]

I'm not entirely against pure vs barrier healing if it were actually done well, but if I were going to lean into it, I think there is a way to resolve that issue. In order to explain, let me start by establishing what a healing action can cost.

Any given healing action will have some sort of cost: MP; DPS; mobility, cooldown, or other resources (such as lilies or aetherflow).

If White Mage is a pure healer, then their pure healing--their high-potency heals that allow them to resolve large healing checks effortlessly should be their primary method of healing and should come at minimal costs.

Exactly what I'm getting at. Where I suggest WHM having a Lily Spender that applies a barrier, it has to be considered that the barrier is weaker than the SCH/SGE equivalent, and also has no heal attached. It'd be much more efficient to use the Lily on healing after the damage, but the option is there in case it's needed (eg the SCH is dead and you need mit to live through a raidwide). I also feel that, with Lilies allowing for damage refund, that it's good to have this 'emergent gameplay' for groups to allow the WHM to handle applying certain shields, to save healer GCDs sometimes. But regardless of that, the barrier would have an opportunity cost: It is gated behind a resource with a 20s recharge (so you have to pick and choose where and when to use barriers), and it is not as strong as the Pure Heal alternative.

To that end, it reminds me of what I wrote a while back about bringing back Nocturnal Sect, wherein AST would have only one way to apply 'barriers', and that's via their standard GCD (which should probably not be called Aspected Helios, if we're in a nighttime-related stance). So in a WHM/AST comp, the WHM would have to rely almost entirely on the AST to deal with % mitigation effects, and the AST would want to rely almost entirely on the WHM for applying Barriers, and more of the Pure Healing (as the OGCD healing throughput for AST would be a bit lower in Nocturnal).

But personally, I'd rather each healer have a more distinct healing style. Pure and barrier can be where those styles lean, but that each healer approaches both pure healing and barrier healing in their own unique ways. For example with barrier mechanics:

Scholar has large, single-use barriers that block most of the damage.
Sage directly reduces the damage taken by the party and has smaller, layered barriers.
White Mage extends the party's Max HP so that they can soak more damage.
Astrologian can cause damage to be staggered across several seconds.

They're all different and have different strengths and weaknesses, but all four of those are able to function as barrier and mitigation mechanics.

See, these are especially interesting designwise, because the WHM and AST ones don't actually reduce the damage taken. If the WHM extends the party's Max HP by 10%, that extra 10% buffer has to come from a heal somewhere. If the AST staggers 20% of the damage taken to be dealt over the next 12s (5% per DOT tick), then that DOT still has to be healed through. Barrier healers, meanwhile, actively reduce the damage taken. That Sacred Soil or Kerachole reduces damage taken by 10%. That 10% is deleted from the game entirely. Also, AST staggering damage out would synergise with the, what is it, 3 different HOTs in their kit?

[Kissune]

This could be easily addressed with things like uncleansable DoTs that deal direct health loss, something that wants strong spammable regens. The tech to deal a set amount of health loss ignoring shields and mitigation is in the game already but it's only used in LotA, IIRC.

They're not serious about the healer split or about healer engagement in general, though, so they don't bother.

Something like natural alignment but for the whole party. The problem with the DoT raidwides of Abyssos was that they snapshot mitigation, making shield healers just... better anyways. I don't want another 3 years of SGE/SCH being just objectively better, and shoving a bunch of mit onto WHM/AST isn't gonna fix that. Instead I expect them to completely trivialize any kind of pure healing mechanic, just like before. Pure healers can't do mit checks as well as shield healers, but shield healers can do healchecks just as well as pure healers bc every one is also a mitcheck.

But it's ok bc daddy Yoshida said fights will be harder, and he's never been wrong or just straight up lied before.

[Aravell]

Sadly, shield healer dominance will continue, because they gave SCH another healing boost, which means beefier deploys, which means they need to buff SGE so they're not deemed useless, which means absolute power creep.

RIP pure healers.

[Kissune]

Sadly, shield healer dominance will continue, because they gave SCH another healing boost, which means beefier deploys, which means they need to buff SGE so they're not deemed useless, which means absolute power creep.

RIP pure healers.

Tbf, I think SCH will end up around the same amount of heal amp bc there's no SHOT they keep dissipation around. That ability is probably like the most bitched-about part of SCH's kit next to energy drain. Which is a shame, because it's probably the most interesting button they have.

[ty_taurus]

See, these are especially interesting designwise, because the WHM and AST ones don't actually reduce the damage taken. If the WHM extends the party's Max HP by 10%, that extra 10% buffer has to come from a heal somewhere. If the AST staggers 20% of the damage taken to be dealt over the next 12s (5% per DOT tick), then that DOT still has to be healed through. Barrier healers, meanwhile, actively reduce the damage taken. That Sacred Soil or Kerachole reduces damage taken by 10%. That 10% is deleted from the game entirely. Also, AST staggering damage out would synergise with the, what is it, 3 different HOTs in their kit?

I would say that staggered damage also can synergize with delayed healing, since it gives you more time to allow that delay time to pass.

Also, I think it's interesting to assume how the stagger mechanic could work mechanically. I think the way that might be most FFXIV friendly would be that AST provides a buff that lasts for 10 seconds and reduces damage taken by 20%, storing that reduced value; then when the duration ends, that accumulated damage is taken over the next 12 seconds, and that would give you more time before you have to deal with the damage as well. That would prevent the effect from triggering a bunch of DOTs that bloat the buff/debuff limit on the party if they get hit a bunch of times during the effect duration. Could you imagine a tumult situation?

[Supersnow845]

Tbf, I think SCH will end up around the same amount of heal amp bc there's no SHOT they keep dissipation around. That ability is probably like the most bitched-about part of SCH's kit next to energy drain. Which is a shame, because it's probably the most interesting button they have.

It’s incredibly rare they remove capstone skills and removing a healing amplifier that’s also a damage tool from level 60 and “returning” it at level 100 is something I doubt they will do