A summary of healer issues

[Absurdity]

This is a nitpick considering the other issues healers have but does anyone else hate how sacred soil and asylum are 200ft tall now? I don't mind them being wider but they're so tall its like the entire arena has a hazy blue filter on it the whole time. It's so distracting.

It's more visual clutter in the already existing VFX clusterfuck, except now it fills the entire arena. So yes, besides these changes making ground target healing even more boring it's also visually annoying.

[Rein_eon_Osborne]

On top of that, I don't think it helps those players who seem to always succeed in not standing within these ground targeted AoEs despite the VFX literally cluttering their view.

At some point I begin to think what would it take for CBU3 to finally give every ground targeted AoEs the Temperance-treatment 'fix'.

[Mimilu]

This is a nitpick considering the other issues healers have but does anyone else hate how sacred soil and asylum are 200ft tall now? I don't mind them being wider but they're so tall its like the entire arena has a hazy blue filter on it the whole time. It's so distracting.

You know, a nitpick about those two abilities I've been thinking about for a bit now is "wouldn't it make more sense for WHM's bubble to be called Sacred Soil and for SCH's to be Asylum?" (*≧▽≦)ﾉｼ))

[Connor]

You know, a nitpick about those two abilities I've been thinking about for a bit now is "wouldn't it make more sense for WHM's bubble to be called Sacred Soil and for SCH's to be Asylum?" (*≧▽≦)ﾉｼ))

The exact same goes for Tetragrammaton and Lustrate actually. Tetragrammaton is a four-letter word that represents the name of god, so you’d think it would go to the ‘uses books and text and stuff’ mage rather than the nature-light-themed Mage. Likewise Lustrate is a type of ceremonial purification, which sounds like it’d belong to the ‘light-themed-purifies-taint’ healer lol. I guess it could be a play on words with Lustrate and Lustration which (apparently) refers to some kind scrutiny placed upon public officials similar to Broil(we are flaming the enemy trololol *rolls eyes* ), but it would make less sense when those are two different words rather than one with double meanings.

It’s also weird that the naming conventions before 50 are quite different from everything else lol. Like if you look at the skill set up to level 50 you see things like Latin words meaning encouragement and support/aid, names like Sacred Soil and Lustrate. You’d expect the job to be some kind of holy priest over a tactician Mage lol.

[Beddict]

You know, a nitpick about those two abilities I've been thinking about for a bit now is "wouldn't it make more sense for WHM's bubble to be called Sacred Soil and for SCH's to be Asylum?" (*≧▽≦)ﾉｼ))

Sacred Soil is Field Treatment Camp in JP, at least when translating it using DeepL. I dunno why they decided to call it Sacred Soil, but yeah, it sticks out quite a bit.

[SieyaM]

Wait... why wouldn't you just be spamming Art of War during the gather if there are 4+ enemies in the pack? You're not a WHM; it's not like you have a cast-time on your AoE that you can't nullify. Just run right next to the tank.

That said, if your options truly were just between the likes of a 700p DoT and 220p Ruin II... that'd also be a reason not to spend an Aetherflow on spreading those DoTs unless an extra Lustrate would be unable to spare you a GCD heal anyways. Across the full gather, AoW's 165n ppgcd is likely to almost double the DoT's ppgcd and the couple earlier ticks on 1-3 mobs for some 280p max isn't going to reliably kill off the first half of mobs so much earlier as to save you a GCD heal you'd otherwise need to throw out towards the end.

If you could DoT-spread, you'd still save it for the the first moment you've reached the full gather, not the run-in, unless all mobs would die in less than the DoT's duration. Outside of a 2-minute burst, it's pretty rare that enemies get less than 30s TTK in a random party.

And if we wanted to actually balance Bane without again relying on absurd drop-off percentiles, it would probably follow something like the old HW suggestions of sharing, doubling, and then re-spreading the DoTs of all enemies in range, while causing enemies hit by Bane to also take on a debuff that causes them to detonate upon death (spreading their remaining durations split among onto enemies nearby -- stacking up to the original max duration -- or just bursting for a portion of the periodic damage stored.)


EDIT

To be more concise: What you're saying would be impacted by Bane almost certainly would not be because you wouldn't use Bane over that the gather (because it'd be a waste to put it on CD, let alone spend AF on it, before the full gather). Heck, Stormblood Bane came with massive damage-falloff (wasn't a damage gain over separate unnerfed DoTs until high enough target counts that you'd just use AoW instead during the gather). And even if Bane were returned, it would probably be in a slightly different form which could easily then actually provide more use of DoT GCDs than are presently optimal in dungeons.

I know I'm kind of necro'ing an old reply and also going to get a lot of heat for saying what I am about to. This kind of min/maxing doesn't really matter in dungeons where these pulls are happening. It really shouldn't matter if you trying to bio enemies as you run behind the tank or spam AoW running with the tank, it is not saving enough time to warrant worrying about it and casual content like dungeons shouldn't require knowing the ppgcd of every possible DPS option available to healers. Also to talk about Bane some, I feel like it has way more purpose when SCH had 3 dots to spread with it but with just one I am not sure it's worth adding a skill to spread their singular DoT, besides it would quickly become a case of all healers need an AoE DoT ability now because of balance.

[Absurdity]

Also to talk about Bane some, I feel like it has way more purpose when SCH had 3 dots to spread with it but with just one I am not sure it's worth adding a skill to spread their singular DoT, besides it would quickly become a case of all healers need an AoE DoT ability now because of balance.

You're absolutely right. As long as SCH only has a single DoT there is no real point to reintroducing Bane, you'd probably rarely ever need it when you can just do what you do rigt now, spam your single DoT on mobs while pulling wall-to-wall so by the time the tank stops you have most of them already dotted up.
If they did get their 3 DoTs back however we could run into a balance issue (not like that particularly matters for dungeons), it worked before Shadowbringers because the only AoE GCD they had was costly and did mediocre damage when spammed. If they kept Art of War they would have to give the other healers some more AoE damage options as well.

[Nizzi]

You're absolutely right. As long as SCH only has a single DoT there is no real point to reintroducing Bane, you'd probably rarely ever need it when you can just do what you do rigt now, spam your single DoT on mobs while pulling wall-to-wall so by the time the tank stops you have most of them already dotted up.
If they did get their 3 DoTs back however we could run into a balance issue (not like that particularly matters for dungeons), it worked before Shadowbringers because the only AoE GCD they had was costly and did mediocre damage when spammed. If they kept Art of War they would have to give the other healers some more AoE damage options as well.

Huh? All of the healers have more AoE damage options than Scholar. Scholar is the only job in the game with only 1 AoE damage button. Why would giving back Bane suddenly mean they "have to give the other healers some more AoE damage options" when all of them except SCH have 3 or more?

[Shurrikhan]

I know I'm kind of necro'ing an old reply and also going to get a lot of heat for saying what I am about to. This kind of min/maxing doesn't really matter in dungeons where these pulls are happening. It really shouldn't matter if you trying to bio enemies as you run behind the tank or spam AoW running with the tank, it is not saving enough time to warrant worrying about it and casual content like dungeons shouldn't require knowing the ppgcd of every possible DPS option available to healers.

Let's be clear here. I noted that one wouldn't optimally be using Bio-spam in that situation anyways only because the person to whom I was replying decided to use a singular joking anecdote (that Bio-spam is all we're left with if wondering where our PvP DoT -> Deployment Tactics went) to make the claim that Bane would detract from SCH's use of DoTs.

My point wasn't anything to do with that "you should hyper-optimize," but rather "adding Bane would not have the negative effects [the person I was replying to] claimed unless playing purposely non-optimally; even casual, normal play would not be thus affected."

Also to talk about Bane some, I feel like it has way more purpose when SCH had 3 dots to spread with it but with just one I am not sure it's worth adding a skill to spread their singular DoT, besides it would quickly become a case of all healers need an AoE DoT ability now because of balance.

Aye, which is why almost anyone asking for Bane... was also asking for more --and more integral/interesting-- DoTs. They're not isolated suggestions, except perhaps where the suggestion is to create an Aetherflow spender that can spread both DoTs and shields (replacing Deployment Tactics as a separate CD, in favor of a weaker but more readily available spread), the latter of which then tends to include contexts of greatly increased healing requirements, etc., etc.

You're absolutely right. As long as SCH only has a single DoT there is no real point to reintroducing Bane

Then reintroduce both?

If they did get their 3 DoTs back however we could run into a balance issue (not like that particularly matters for dungeons), it worked before Shadowbringers because the only AoE GCD they had was costly and did mediocre damage when spammed. If they kept Art of War they would have to give the other healers some more AoE damage options as well.

No, it wouldn't. Balance in any content in which balance is actually worth having tight is not determined by how much of your damage comes from periodic sources. Periodic, direct, pet-based, caster-based, unaspected, or physical, it's all still just potency. Enemy TTK in serious content is not low enough to be noticeably affected, and were the TTK low enough to be affected, it would always favor non-periodic damage.

The only impact is on Combined DPS+HPS curves. DoTs are effectively soft, per-target CDs, and CDs tend to collect the given kit's DPS increasingly into brief moments of opportunity (siphoned from their filler). With damage shifted from Broil to further DoTs, SCH could manage a higher DPS under a higher % of uptime spent healing than it does now, but that is easily balanced for across other kits (and probably would barely reach the tail of SGE's lead over everyone else).

If Phlegma, itself, doesn't break the game / healer balance (or Cards, for making that huge portion of AST's rDPS function regardless of healing uptime), neither will an extra DoT or two on SCH. (Note, however, that SGE's Combined HPS+DPS is almost balance-breaking, but that has next to nothing to do with Phlegma.)

[Renathras]

The exact same goes for...

I do agree that a lot of naming conventions are...off...but I don't think this one is.

"four letter (tetra) name of god" fits the "holy priest", which WHM's still are in this game, even considering the CNJ roots (the Amdapori very clearly did use Holy aspected magics and had one of the Twelve as their patron). And Lustrate as purification here still applies to SCH in the sense of "disinfectant" or "cleaning" when working as a healer of people. Even before the discovery of microorganisms, people realized value in cleanliness when caring for the sick (if nothing else, it decreased them getting sick), and this kind of works with the lost Leeches (SCH's Esuna spell pre-SB). And recall that a lot of caregivers WERE religious persons at the time (a lot of early medical and scientific discoveries related to things were by priests, like the guy that discovered the recessive-dominant gene thing we now do with Punnett squares), so the cleaning might have been ritualistic. And, lest we forget, Nym also had a patron god, Oschon (hence Wonderer's Palace), so the idea of the SCH's of Nym having a FEW religious-esque rites doesn't seem entirely unfounded.

Before SGE, SCH was the "doctor" healer. Leeches, Physick, and arguably Succor could all be argued to be based in that.

Sacred Soil is weird, but I think the argument here is "holy soil as a reagent in alchemy" rather than "hallowed ground" (which...is a PLD ability name). Asylum, on the other hand, wouldn't make sense for SCH since it started as a religious convention way back when, as far back as the asylum cities in ancient Israel and in the Medieval period, was practiced by the churches and generally a privilege extended to them by European secular governments. In FFXIV's world, most of the city-states of the 5th era, those that weren't ALREADY conquered by Mhach, sought asylum/protection from Amdapor, which was the "big brother/protector" nation of that era. Sort of a less passive Sharlayan for the time.

Sacred Soil is Field Treatment Camp in JP, at least when translating it using DeepL. I dunno why they decided to call it Sacred Soil, but yeah, it sticks out quite a bit.

Huh.

So basically, "M.A.S.H. Camp"?