A summary of healer issues

[ForsakenRoe]

FFXIV already has a borderline Support role, it's the Ranged Physical (less MCH since the rework in ShB), and arguably RDM.

Couple of people I've talked to said something similar actually. If they were to implement a Support role, it'd actually help fix the disparity in the DPS classes right now (apparently). What they said was to split the DPS not based on melee v ranged v caster, but selfish and support. So I guess you'd have NIN DRG BRD DNC RDM SMN moved to this new 'support' role, and the others double down on being more selfish. It'd at least open up the opportunity for interesting class design ideas I guess, like SMN getting additional support based summons, like Carbuncle applying a reflective barrier to bounce damage back, or RDM getting it's En-spells from 11 back. I don't think it'd go down well this point into the game's life though

IDK if I agree with the idea as I've not put much thought into it, DPS classes aren't exactly my thing

[Renathras]

Couple of people I've talked to said something similar actually. If they were to implement a Support role, it'd actually help fix the disparity in the DPS classes right now (apparently). What they said was to split the DPS not based on melee v ranged v caster, but selfish and support. So I guess you'd have NIN DRG BRD DNC RDM SMN moved to this new 'support' role, and the others double down on being more selfish. It'd at least open up the opportunity for interesting class design ideas I guess, like SMN getting additional support based summons, like Carbuncle applying a reflective barrier to bounce damage back, or RDM getting it's En-spells from 11 back.

Yeah, something like this. I've seen various takes on it, but generally BRD, DNC, and RDM make the Support list, with various other candidates (NIN, AST, and SMN are the next runners up, for example). MOST of these Jobs (RDM aside) are already balanced around this idea of bringing support leading to lower personal DPS. BRD and DNC completely rely on that, as does AST.

I think the general idea/pitch is that it fills the 4th party slot in 4 mans (being 3-6 Jobs, it would obviously have the representation to be worth that), and 1 or 2 slots in an 8 man party (1 a given, with the second being one of your choices for the 4th DPS flex slot like we have now). BRD has been "arguably Support" since ARR, if not 1.0. I think BRD could use Protect at one point, even, and used to use the Healer LB3. For all of FFXIV's life, it was treated as a de-facto Support by players. MCH when introduced had some support abilities with the Turrets (for the life of me I can't remember it now, but I remember it being a thing then), further cementing "Ranged Physical" as the Support role of the game.

And, as you say, it could open up a decent chunk of Job changes and gameplay styles, like SMN having various support Summons, like FF games tend to have between buffing/defensive/haste/etc Summons balancing out the offensive ones in a lot of iterations of the Job. Offhand, Tactics had 2 healing, a shield one, and something else. FF9 Eiko had Carby for all three barrier types (Reflect, Protect, Shell) and also Haste (changed based on what accessory she had equipped), etc.

It would also help out a lot of the players that really do yearn for that playstyle. I don't think it's coincidence that a lot of the players who want Healers to be Supports tend to main (or speak highly of) DNC and RDM. I think it's a design fault that SE doesn't decide to actually embrace that. RDM, for example, is the perfect vehicle for "DPS that throws support heals" due to its nature and lore, which is what a lot of people asking for Healers to become Supports are genuinely asking for. Granted, the encounter design would need to be changed so that HEALING ACTUALLY MATTERS, but if RDM had, for example, Vermedica (at a 1000 MP cost so they couldn't just outright replace a Healer as they'd OOM rather quickly), it would give RDM's the ability to stand in for Healers in a pinch or support healing in situations that actually demanded it.

...that does, of course, require encounter design to actually demand it.

Likewise, BRD and DNC getting stuff like combat Pelaton and enemy debuffs.

I dunno, I think it's something worth considering, at the very least.

[Shurrikhan]

Couple of people I've talked to said something similar actually. If they were to implement a Support role, it'd actually help fix the disparity in the DPS classes right now (apparently). What they said was to split the DPS not based on melee v ranged v caster, but selfish and support.

I really don't think theirs is at all a solid claim.

Neither support nor selfishness have a consistent complexity factor. Nor is the one necessarily harder than the other, especially in any context with both.

Without automatic sync, an exploiter would have to play around buffs just as much as a single-target buffer would want to play around that exploiter. Takes two hands to clap, and buffer and exploiter each have only one function hand, so to speak.

Limited range is consistently an additional factor of difficulty compared to unlimited range, even if to variable/contextual effect. Having cast times is consistently an additional factor of difficulty compared to not have cast times, even if to variable/contextual effect...

...But as long as you have a buffer, getting buffs out before potency and getting in potency after buffs... are just mirror images of each other.

Pseudo-exceptions: If you have single-target, unsynced buffs but a large disparity in average potency to be dealt within n seconds, the buffers decision can be made much more immediately and automatically, while the exploiter's decision (e.g., when to spend gauge and procs) can be a bit more tracking-heavy. Of course, if that best recipient varies, then the buffer will usually have more to be aware of, while the exploiter need only bank as able and up to the point they'd waste larger raid cycle potential.

[Aravell]

So I guess you'd have NIN DRG BRD DNC RDM SMN moved to this new 'support' role, and the others double down on being more selfish.

I don't think turning NIN back into a support would go down well with the current NIN players, most of them seemed to be thrilled when the Trick Attack changes occurred since they want to do more personal damage. NIN has also been stripped of a majority of their support abilities, in fact, MNK has 1 more than NIN atm. NIN's Mug against MNK's Brotherhood + Mantra.

MCH when introduced had some support abilities with the Turrets (for the life of me I can't remember it now, but I remember it being a thing then)

MCH had Hypercharge, which made the Rook turret give phys vuln and the Bishop turret give an AoE magic vuln. They also had Promotion, which stopped all turret autoattacks to pulse a restoration wave for TP (Rook) or MP (Bishop).