A summary of healer issues

[ty_taurus]

Hey, thanks so much for this summary. It must have been a lot of work. I agree with most everything included, and I had a suggestion that might help with this point as it's something I've often thought a lot about myself:



Now, I don't really know if this is a good thread for discussion because of its size so I might make a separate thread for this too, but I think one of the reason players feel the healer role is 'stressful' is because of the perception that if the group wipes it's their fault. And, something that can easily lead to this is if they die or the tank dies and they can't rez them then it's all over and it's their fault.

I think that they could just let every Job rez, at least once per 5 minutes ala BLU mage. Call it Phoenix Down and make it a general action or something. SMN, RDM and Healers can keep their versions, too, but this would mean that a random duty finder group isn't wholly reliant on having extra dps that can rez or new healer players learning a fight quickly as just being brought back to life for 30 seconds would be plenty of time to heal up the group before dying to the next mechanic. Also gives healers more opportunities to watch and learn a fight while dead before rejoining the fray, which is something that other Jobs have long enjoyed.

Other than that, it'd be nice if they stopped adding so many actions that only affect your party. Like, I get that they're fixated on their Trials, Raids and Ultimates, but PvP and Alliance Raids are things that exist, too. It makes sense for AoE actions like heals or Divination to be group limited as it would trivialize raid healing even more if you could hit all players alone, but it sure is dumb that you can't use Kardia, Synastry, Aquaveil and Faerie's Embrace (anymore) and the like on the main tank of a 24 man! Or even just random players you encounter out in the wild. I'm sure Joe Catgirl out there grinding FATEs or even random enemies for crafting mats wouldn't give a damn if I played a Balance card or Excogitation on him, it's pretty hard to mob-tag credit steal in this game.

I had made the suggestion before that Phoenix Downs should just be reworked since they do exist as an item anyone can use. The summary of that rework is essentially, they have a 2 minute cooldown that is not shared with any other item, they can be used in combat, players can hold multiple phoenix downs instead of only 1, players get 1 free Phoenix Down for clearing any roulette once per day, and high-end duties have a 'silence phoenix down' effect similar to silence echo where phoenix downs cannot be used in combat. Ultimately, it's an item that already exists, so we may as well use it.

[Post]

I would agree except that I think going a step further to make them "not an item" and just exist as a general action would be a good idea, because otherwise it's just clogging up inventory space and providing folks with a reason to not bring them (ran out of them, didn't know about them etc. Heck, almost every week I run into a new player that doesn't know about Limit Break and that's for free). Having them as a reward from roulettes would also make them feel even more scarce, making players less likely to use them or more grudging of players that need a rez, or it would make the classic double/triple/quadruple rez a real facepalm moment.

Others have mentioned using Antidotes, Spine Drops, Smelling Salts and Echo Drops and the like, which are all really great tools very, very occasionally, but most players don't use them because they take up space and don't know they exist, and maybe a smidge of 'elixir syndrome' where you just don't wanna use consumables, ever.

I think the idea is to make rezzing more available so that healers don't have to shoulder that burden. Their job should be focused on preventing death in the first place. I also don't see a reason to arbitrarily restrict its use in all but the most specific of difficult duties like Savage Criterion, because enrage timers basically already exist in high end content to prevent sandbagging with rezzes forever. So, allowing more people to rez doesn't guarantee that you'll win those encounters, just that you'll have more opportunities to see more of them, and help your group learn them quicker.

[ty_taurus]

I would agree except that I think going a step further to make them "not an item" and just exist as a general action would be a good idea, because otherwise it's just clogging up inventory space and providing folks with a reason to not bring them (ran out of them, didn't know about them etc. Heck, almost every week I run into a new player that doesn't know about Limit Break and that's for free). Having them as a reward from roulettes would also make them feel even more scarce, making players less likely to use them or more grudging of players that need a rez, or it would make the classic double/triple/quadruple rez a real facepalm moment.

Others have mentioned using Antidotes, Spine Drops, Smelling Salts and Echo Drops and the like, which are all really great tools very, very occasionally, but most players don't use them because they take up space and don't know they exist, and maybe a smidge of 'elixir syndrome' where you just don't wanna use consumables, ever.

I think the idea is to make rezzing more available so that healers don't have to shoulder that burden. Their job should be focused on preventing death in the first place. I also don't see a reason to arbitrarily restrict its use in all but the most specific of difficult duties like Savage Criterion, because enrage timers basically already exist in high end content to prevent sandbagging with rezzes forever. So, allowing more people to rez doesn't guarantee that you'll win those encounters, just that you'll have more opportunities to see more of them, and help your group learn them quicker.

The roulette reward was meant to be a way to get them for free. You could still buy them, but the inventory argument does make sense, or make it a collectable like the aether compass. Either case if item phoenix downs are no longer needed, removing them does also reduce server load slighly, which is a growing concern as the inventory expands, but they'll eventually need a more long-term solution other than just converting a few inventory items into an action or collectable item.

[Shurrikhan]

Either case if item phoenix downs are no longer needed, removing them does also reduce server load slighly, which is a growing concern as the inventory expands, but they'll eventually need a more long-term solution other than just converting a few inventory items into an action or collectable item.

That feels like such a tiny thing, though compared to all the low-hanging fruit, so to speak, by which to reduce inventory bloat already?

I mean, just look at Materia, for instance. It's about the most bloated way possible by which to allow players a means of customizing their secondary stats independently of their (un)lock with gear drops.


Or the many items that are just redyes of a former, undyable set. There's no need to have 9 colors of Shisui Bikini with only three tiny variations outside of color. Just have the 3 sets, based on those actual featural differences, each dyable and usable by multiple gear types' jobs.

The so-frequently shared Striking/Scouting or Striking/Maiming or Aiming/Casting or or Scouting/Aiming or Casting/Healing appearances? Should every dungeon be required to have 7 gear sets despite having as few as 3 appearances between them and to make those sets undyable just to try to differentiate them unnecessarily? All just to add to the grind and inventory space required with no increase in appearances available to players?

That said, I can mostly agree with making Phoenix Down usable in more content, though I might advise sharing a cooldown party-wide on its use. So long as hard enrages remain, even if we make MP more of a mechanic, it shouldn't make things too cheese-able.

And if we were to go that route, using them as roulette rewards might make the roulettes seem a tiny bit more attractive, though I have to agree with Post that we'd probably also want to make the option more obvious / visible.

[ty_taurus]

That feels like such a tiny thing, though compared to all the low-hanging fruit, so to speak, by which to reduce inventory bloat already?

I mean, just look at Materia, for instance. It's about the most bloated way possible by which to allow players a means of customizing their secondary stats independently of their (un)lock with gear drops.


Or the many items that are just redyes of a former, undyable set. There's no need to have 9 colors of Shisui Bikini with only three tiny variations outside of color. Just have the 3 sets, based on those actual featural differences, each dyable and usable by multiple gear types' jobs.

The so-frequently shared Striking/Scouting or Striking/Maiming or Aiming/Casting or or Scouting/Aiming or Casting/Healing appearances? Should every dungeon be required to have 7 gear sets despite having as few as 3 appearances between them and to make those sets undyable just to try to differentiate them unnecessarily? All just to add to the grind and inventory space required with no increase in appearances available to players?

That said, I can mostly agree with making Phoenix Down usable in more content, though I might advise sharing a cooldown party-wide on its use. So long as hard enrages remain, even if we make MP more of a mechanic, it shouldn't make things too cheese-able.

And if we were to go that route, using them as roulette rewards might make the roulettes seem a tiny bit more attractive, though I have to agree with Post that we'd probably also want to make the option more obvious / visible.

You're not wrong, but they did it with the Aether Compass as well. There are definitely bigger areas that could be addressed, but it's still worth mentioning. And it does also help the player's inventory as well.

And as for hard enrage, I suggested that phoenix downs be disabled for high-end duties, at least initially. Allowing them is very big uncharted territory that also devalues RDM and SMN, though depending on who you ask, that could be a good thing. Honestly, it'd be up to the devs to decide if they want them or not, I just think it's worth mentioning that we can simply have them disabled to dismiss any concerns about how it affects raiding.