A summary of healer issues

[ASkellington]

Then let's just not do anything. No job needs to change, or even get new actions. Let's just not have anything added ever.

I don't see how me not liking the idea of a GCD card system because I feel like it would be clunky or change the way I play the class to the point where I will likely switch to something else = I don't want any changes. I don't like your idea of a card system. That's it. There are plenty of ideas to change AST's card system that I both agreed and disagreed with.

I told you why I didn't agree with it - I like the feel of weaving the cards as they are and that we don't need to have them on a GCD when we had them on oGCDs and can keep them on oGCDs as they have been for 3 expansions right now.

You can either take the feedback and adjust your design or ignore it because you think is fine. Its your opinion like mine is that I would hate your idea of AST. It has nothing against you as a person, so I don't know why you're making it seem like a personal attack here.

Back on to it I suppose is the best way that I can describe your preposed idea is going back to 5.0 cards where we had to change a Major Arcana to a Minor One with all the animation clunk to begin wtih - (Draw - Change into Crown - then Play) and if that's how its going to feel, then no. AST is far from perfect, and the APM is probably too high, but I don't want to go back to that levels of clunk.

[ForsakenRoe]

I remember a lot of people complaining about the idea of GCD mudras for NIN, saying it'd slow the class down, it'd be clunky, weaving ninjutsu was part of it's identity, if you clipped your raiton it was your fault get better internet scrub, etc. Turns out it's not actually so bad as doomsayers claimed. Similar happened when 4.2 WAR happened, expert theorycrafters decided it 'felt like a nerf' to WAR damage because IR was going to change from 120s to 90s (it no longer aligns with Trick, must be a nerf!) Turned out guaranteed Crit/DHit meant it was actually a sizeable buff.

Something tells me that GCD cards would be one of those 'you have to try it before you can really say either way' kind of changes in the same vein. I also don't particularly like the sound of GCD cards either, but I'd be at least willing to give it a try before passing full judgement. Maybe it'd feel smoother in some way, maybe it'd allow us to use Lightspeed for mobility instead of it being forced into 'use it to be allowed to play your class', who knows

[ASkellington]

I remember a lot of people complaining about the idea of GCD mudras for NIN, saying it'd slow the class down, it'd be clunky, weaving ninjutsu was part of it's identity, if you clipped your raiton it was your fault get better internet scrub, etc. Turns out it's not actually so bad as doomsayers claimed. Similar happened when 4.2 WAR happened, expert theorycrafters decided it 'felt like a nerf' to WAR damage because IR was going to change from 120s to 90s (it no longer aligns with Trick, must be a nerf!) Turned out guaranteed Crit/DHit meant it was actually a sizeable buff.

Something tells me that GCD cards would be one of those 'you have to try it before you can really say either way' kind of changes in the same vein. I also don't particularly like the sound of GCD cards either, but I'd be at least willing to give it a try before passing full judgement. Maybe it'd feel smoother in some way, maybe it'd allow us to use Lightspeed for mobility instead of it being forced into 'use it to be allowed to play your class', who knows

Yeah, it would be a thing you'd have to try, all I can do is give feedback on what I see on paper, but I don't see the point in trying a GCD system when we have an oGCD system that worked (SB) is my point. And after 2 expansions of a card system that I don't really like, I'm not interested in having a third.

[Aravell]

I remember a lot of people complaining about the idea of GCD mudras for NIN, saying it'd slow the class down, it'd be clunky, weaving ninjutsu was part of it's identity, if you clipped your raiton it was your fault get better internet scrub, etc. Turns out it's not actually so bad as doomsayers claimed. Similar happened when 4.2 WAR happened, expert theorycrafters decided it 'felt like a nerf' to WAR damage because IR was going to change from 120s to 90s (it no longer aligns with Trick, must be a nerf!) Turned out guaranteed Crit/DHit meant it was actually a sizeable buff.

Something tells me that GCD cards would be one of those 'you have to try it before you can really say either way' kind of changes in the same vein. I also don't particularly like the sound of GCD cards either, but I'd be at least willing to give it a try before passing full judgement. Maybe it'd feel smoother in some way, maybe it'd allow us to use Lightspeed for mobility instead of it being forced into 'use it to be allowed to play your class', who knows

You can't really speak for everyone about those changes, I'm one of the people who hated NIN mudras being made GCD, I still hate it to the point that I barely touch the job anymore, it did slow down the class and the fast-paced gameplay I played it for is no longer there.

On GCD AST cards though, I'm open to the idea. The diversity of GCD usage is lacking on healers, seeing it shaken up in any way would be welcome. Also cards on the GCD would mean lightspeed can actually be used as the movement tool it was meant to be instead of being a 2 minute fixture in the opener/reopener despite having a shorter cooldown.

[Recon1o6]

ogcd cards are better since that leaves more gcd variety- which means it can get more damage buttons (Ast players hate the 111111 as much as anyone, but they've had it longer because of SB) but what's really better for ast is getting its original cards back.

You can talk numbers all you like, at the end of the day Ast's popularity plummeted overnight when they removed its cards and time magic

edit: another reason why Ast's gcd cards wouldn't work. Cards on the gcd would take up too much gcd if they made play gcd as well. You'd spend 1/3 of your time on it or more if you redraw. Minor arcana and lord/lady on top? you wouldnt get ANY gcds spare

That being said, having solely draw be a gcd would be fine for variety but keep the rest on the ogcd

[Deceptus]

Yeah, it would be a thing you'd have to try, all I can do is give feedback on what I see on paper, but I don't see the point in trying a GCD system when we have an oGCD system that worked (SB) is my point. And after 2 expansions of a card system that I don't really like, I'm not interested in having a third.

And sadly past experience is with healer design is what we see on paper is pretty much what we get even when said decisions are clearly detrimental to the job.

It's early and I can't remember off the top of my head but an expansion or two ago healers lambasted the design choice at the beginning of an expansion (Stormblood maybe?), and we got the usual "Just wait and try it yourself!".

It was as terrible as was predicted.

[HyperiusUltima]

And sadly past experience is with healer design is what we see on paper is pretty much what we get even when said decisions are clearly detrimental to the job.

It's early and I can't remember off the top of my head but an expansion or two ago healers lambasted the design choice at the beginning of an expansion (Stormblood maybe?), and we got the usual "Just wait and try it yourself!".

It was as terrible as was predicted.

Heh. Remember when they removed Energy Drain and people whined all the way to heaven and back? That was so much of a racket that they gave it back to SCH rather quickly. Did it for ShB too and the exact same thing happened. The main one I can remember they lambasted the most was WHM Lilies - and GOD it was horrible. Just use 1 Benison and you basically lose all your Lilies, which was bull.

[Recon1o6]

in energy drain's case, it literally broke the job but because they dont test healers, they didnt learn that

[ForsakenRoe]

edit: another reason why Ast's gcd cards wouldn't work. Cards on the gcd would take up too much gcd if they made play gcd as well. You'd spend 1/3 of your time on it or more if you redraw. Minor arcana and lord/lady on top? you wouldnt get ANY gcds spare

TBH, if the cards were impactful enough I'm not sure this would actually be a bad thing, it'd mean less pressing of Malefic (which is good as it'd mean variety in what button we're mashing), and the identity of the class would show more if the buffs were stronger. When they changed ninjutsu to be on the GCD, they also buffed the heck out of the potencies to compensate. IIRC Raiton used to be 360, now it's 650. So I'd assume, if we did nothing but change drawing/playing cards from OGCD to GCD (redraw can stay OGCD), they'd be moved up from 6% on correct target to like, 10% to compensate. It'd slow the class down to a comparative crawl APM wise, but I hear a lot of people dropped it in favor of WHM when they saw the 2min window (Manifold Flames) in P8S P1 so IDK

[Recon1o6]

New Q&A, new healer question opportunity.

I'm tempted to ask in the plainest terms
"Can healers get more damage spells and astrologian cards returned to the stormblood version as a priority please?"

naturally this might not fly given the topic so second version of the question
"In all the healer job quests from A realm reborn to Endwalker Healers are taught to use damage spells and healing spells in both gameplay and lore. However shadowbringers removed too many damage spells and astrologian cards which were also tied to lore. Can these be returned as a priority?


I could always ask both I suppose