A summary of healer issues

[Grimoire-M]

It’s more or less the side dmg healer vs pure healer here in ff 14. I mean in the early ARR days no healer did dmg. That changed hard when people did twintania and healer dmg effectively skipped a lot of mechanics. The problem is people like to compare ff 14 too wow for whatever dumb reason but we both know that wows fight design has way more consistent dmg that pulses throughout the entire fight we’re in comparison ff 14 has specific timings for some bosses we’re the dmg spikes but expect also some dots abilities it’s not consistent dmg.

I remember always trying to do damage even back in ARR. Started in 2.3 when that shift was coming into fruit. Healers weren’t expected to do damage but raiders realized how significant it really was and started trying to work to maintain it. Scholar was the better class at doing so by far so it was really them that carried the idea onto other healers. Hell it’s where the idea of main/off healer came from. Back then WHM had better tools for burst healing non-tank classes while Scholar’s main advantage came from most of their actions working in Cleric Stance without any loss, only really needing to swap for shields (which still had issues). The go-to meta in casual content was “Work on DoT uptime first, add in filler once you’re comfortable”.

[Sebazy]

There was much more emphasis on being prepared for spikes and conserving MP as well.

I'd generally maintain dots in duties where I knew I wasn't going to be wheezing for MP, and if MP was a concern I'd only really throw damage during specific push points.

I've always found dungeons to have plenty of healer DPS potential though, much more so than raids back in ARR. Multi dotting offered some pretty hefty damage back then.

[Recon1o6]

It’s more or less the side dmg healer vs pure healer here in ff 14. I mean in the early ARR days no healer did dmg. That changed hard when people did twintania and healer dmg effectively skipped a lot of mechanics. The problem is people like to compare ff 14 too wow for whatever dumb reason but we both know that wows fight design has way more consistent dmg that pulses throughout the entire fight we’re in comparison ff 14 has specific timings for some bosses we’re the dmg spikes but expect also some dots abilities it’s not consistent dmg.

eh i wouldnt say that, sch's could rely on their fairy to heal, because the fairy was actually pretty good when it executed its actions if a bit drunk at times. Whm's also could get away with buffing their heals then dropping big fat regens heals.
It wasnt uncommon for whm to spend a long time in cleric stance on, just to top off the tank with benediction

overall though there was a lot more gcd healing because we didn;t have ogcd heals back then aside from benediction

[ToodlesElNoodles]

Had an interesting thought: would you guys be alright if Cleric Stance came back, but for WHM? Nerf dps and healing potencies a bit, but have Cleric Stance available to make it slightly higher in potency? (For example, nerf Glare potency from 310 to 300, but with Cleric Stance active, brings the potency up to 320. Numbers could always use some tweaking.)

More casual players like me would be able to get by in random dungeons and other content without it impacting anything while more experienced players would be able to leverage it for optimal play?

Granted, while you guys are pretty understanding veteran healers, I do fear that having a tool like that with WHM would lend...other less understanding...players to be heavy-handed against those in casual content for not utilizing it. Which would only feed further into SE's position to not change anything.

[Reiryuu]

Had an interesting thought: would you guys be alright if Cleric Stance came back, but for WHM? Nerf dps and healing potencies a bit, but have Cleric Stance available to make it slightly higher in potency? (For example, nerf Glare potency from 310 to 300, but with Cleric Stance active, brings the potency up to 320. Numbers could always use some tweaking.)

More casual players like me would be able to get by in random dungeons and other content without it impacting anything while more experienced players would be able to leverage it for optimal play?

Granted, while you guys are pretty understanding veteran healers, I do fear that having a tool like that with WHM would lend...other less understanding...players to be heavy-handed against those in casual content for not utilizing it. Which would only feed further into SE's position to not change anything.

Not really. TBH, I wasn't a huge fan of Cleric Stance in the first place, but the problem with WHM is the lack of other options to do besides glare spam when healing is unnecessary not the amount of damage it does.

[Recon1o6]

Had an interesting thought: would you guys be alright if Cleric Stance came back, but for WHM? Nerf dps and healing potencies a bit, but have Cleric Stance available to make it slightly higher in potency? (For example, nerf Glare potency from 310 to 300, but with Cleric Stance active, brings the potency up to 320. Numbers could always use some tweaking.)

More casual players like me would be able to get by in random dungeons and other content without it impacting anything while more experienced players would be able to leverage it for optimal play?

Granted, while you guys are pretty understanding veteran healers, I do fear that having a tool like that with WHM would lend...other less understanding...players to be heavy-handed against those in casual content for not utilizing it. Which would only feed further into SE's position to not change anything.

tbh, just cleric stance by itself wouldn't really do anything apart from annoy people. It doesn't add any reasonable depth, it only changes the script so you push CS once in a while to go back into heal mode and I quite liked the juggling act back in ARR where fights were less scripted, yet here I am advocating against it

Now, when its linked to something else like seraph strike in bozja, thats when it gets interesting.

As it stands the major issue is not enough damage gcds. Now, if seraph strike was an instant gcd on either a short or regular 2.5s cooldown, that would spice things up a fair bit since it would be juggling a damage buff with healing nerf. Lower skilled/sylphies would use it purely as a gap closer while higher skill players would use it more regular in order to get more damage out

[NobleWinter]

I still think Cleric stance should have been reworked instead of removed. While it's first iteration definitely tripped up a lot novice healers in ARR it could have been made foolproof by changing it's function to affect ONLY healing spells. If Cleric Stance made it so that aoe heals like Medica, Succor, and Helios did damage to all enemies in range equal to their cure potency it wouldn't have stopped anyone from being able to heal effectively. It would instead allow healers to power heal while maintaining dps uptime. If it was on a 60 second cooldown then healers could alternate using it to cover raid wides with GCD heals and save their oGCD tools for anytime they were outside Cleric Stance. I mean, can you imagine Cure 3 trashing mobs in a dungeon or Emergency Tactics decimating enemies? It would change the trajectory of our playstyles completely trying to maximise damage under Cleric Stance by using healing buffs. Dissipation and Temperance and Neutral Sect would suddenly be weapons of mass destruction. Even if the damage wasn't exactly equal to the healing potency it would still be really fun to use and fit into the more offensive healer dynamic this game is known for.

[Grimoire-M]

tbh, just cleric stance by itself wouldn't really do anything apart from annoy people. It doesn't add any reasonable depth, it only changes the script so you push CS once in a while to go back into heal mode and I quite liked the juggling act back in ARR where fights were less scripted, yet here I am advocating against it

Now, when its linked to something else like seraph strike in bozja, thats when it gets interesting.

As it stands the major issue is not enough damage gcds. Now, if seraph strike was an instant gcd on either a short or regular 2.5s cooldown, that would spice things up a fair bit since it would be juggling a damage buff with healing nerf. Lower skilled/sylphies would use it purely as a gap closer while higher skill players would use it more regular in order to get more damage out

Cleric was at least more interesting because it had interactions with the DoT aspect of the old rotations. I don't think it fits anymore because of the tempo of current fights. It made sense in ARR where you had breathing room for its use. Heavensward had the odd stress-testing spot that ultimately was manageable but I was absolutely glad it was gone in Stormblood. I do agree it would be better in Endwalker than it was in the past thanks to half-casts, but I'd rather have old tank stances back than than cleric stance. There at least lies the potential for strategic decision making. DPS doesn't allow for that in an MMO unless fights are designed to go off script.

[Deceptus]

Cleric was at least more interesting because it had interactions with the DoT aspect of the old rotations. I don't think it fits anymore because of the tempo of current fights. It made sense in ARR where you had breathing room for its use.

Respectfully, you say this like there still isn't large gaps where there's zero damage going out. It could still be implemented today, but it would require smart use and pre-planning

Now if there was only a job that was designed completely around that entire concept . . .

[Dogempire]

Respectfully, you say this like there still isn't large gaps where there's zero damage going out. It could still be implemented today, but it would require smart use and pre-planning

Now if there was only a job that was designed completely around that entire concept . . .

As much as I liked when healers had cleric stance, the implementation itself was weird since healers were the only job whose main stat wasn't its damage stat (Though I think tanks may have briefly had their damage tied to vitality, but I forget since I didn't tank at that time)

I can't really see old cleric stance working as there isn't actually any substance to healer dps rotations, maybe if they changed it to a 20% damage boost and made it cost 3000 mp I could see it spicing things up a bit, but just swapping stats wouldn't really work well since it was more of a hindrance than an actual fun aspect of healing for the majority of people