A summary of healer issues

[Anhra]

how is pld magic marauder when they play nothing alike? Everyone know's DRK and WAR play similar but saying PLD plays like marauder is wrong flat out. And what do you mean by removed bard songs?

I can answer your question on that. Let's check on the similarities tanks have and then you might notice something when you look at the warrior skillset.

1: every tank job has its own version of inner release.
2: every tank has a "i can't die now button"
3: every tank has the exact same AoE combo except for that one cone attack from Warrior which matters little.
4: every tank has currenty on almost every content (except for endgame savage content) so much defense that some enemies do literally 0 damage when you pop one defense up buff, including bosses inside dungeons.
5: every tank has enough self presevation capabilities, that it makes healing from healers almost completely unnecessary, as SCH for example, i only need to reapply whispering dawn and occasionally use aether pact which is more than enough to keep any decent tank alive. Hell, my FC is even doing the daily roulette on 50/60/70 and leveling without any healers, just for the heck of it.
6: every tank has some wide range support utility which should normally be a healer thing.

Tl;dr: tanks are just as boring to play as healers are because in both roles, the jobs are too similar from one another.

[Deceptus]

I can answer your question on that. Let's check on the similarities tanks have and then you might notice something when you look at the warrior skillset.

1: every tank job has its own version of inner release.
Tl;dr: tanks are just as boring to play as healers are because in both roles, the jobs are too similar from one another.

It's less of an "Inner Release" version and more of a build up phase and a burst phase. Every role (except healers) has it.

[Absurdity]

It's less of an "Inner Release" version and more of a build up phase and a burst phase. Every role (except healers) has it.

I think calling it an "Inner Release" is aptly named in this case. It always boils down to "spam this button 5 times", granted PLD now presses a different button at the end of it but the original design of Requiescat was exactly that. Sure, you could press something else, just like you could on warrior but that would simply mean you're doing it wrong on purpose.

You're also not building up to anything, that's what GNB does, you're simply popping the cooldown and spam away. PLD only slightly differs in that it technically still has a cost attached to it but this cost is irrelevant due to it's rotation.

[Aurturia]

I can answer your question on that. Let's check on the similarities tanks have and then you might notice something when you look at the warrior skillset.

1: every tank job has its own version of inner release.
2: every tank has a "i can't die now button"
3: every tank has the exact same AoE combo except for that one cone attack from Warrior which matters little.
4: every tank has currenty on almost every content (except for endgame savage content) so much defense that some enemies do literally 0 damage when you pop one defense up buff, including bosses inside dungeons.
5: every tank has enough self presevation capabilities, that it makes healing from healers almost completely unnecessary, as SCH for example, i only need to reapply whispering dawn and occasionally use aether pact which is more than enough to keep any decent tank alive. Hell, my FC is even doing the daily roulette on 50/60/70 and leveling without any healers, just for the heck of it.
6: every tank has some wide range support utility which should normally be a healer thing.

Tl;dr: tanks are just as boring to play as healers are because in both roles, the jobs are too similar from one another.

I think you may be going a little overboard with this list, invulns and defensive cooldowns are core part of a tank tool kit in any game and they have put as much variety in these tool kit as possible. Every invuln is unique in a way we can objectively call pld's the most powerful or drk's the worst, and most of the cool downs are percentage based with only the shield based ones capable of reducing incoming damage to zero. Also while it's not a one to one, I can accept requiescat as inner release like, but gnb really doesn't have an equivalent.

[Anhra]

I think you may be going a little overboard with this list, invulns and defensive cooldowns are core part of a tank tool kit in any game and they have put as much variety in these tool kit as possible. Every invuln is unique in a way we can objectively call pld's the most powerful or drk's the worst, and most of the cool downs are percentage based with only the shield based ones capable of reducing incoming damage to zero. Also while it's not a one to one, I can accept requiescat as inner release like, but gnb really doesn't have an equivalent.

Not at all. There are plenty of ways to keep things unique from one another, instead of just giving a optical illusion that things are a bit different from one another, if free2play MMO's can pull it off, then i see no reason why Squeenix can't as well.

Im quite confident that you could remove the immortality and defensive buffs from tanks, and hardly anything would change at all because of their current absurd defense values at endgame.

[Anhra]

Back on the topic of Healers (might apply to any Job tho), i think that Squeenix should start building their Skillsets for all Jobs in a way to work both in PvE and PvP alike. Not only would this finally create a proper meta to work on (a cycle of destroying and rebuilding the meta), it would also keep Things fresh and allow more possibilities, such as open world pvp ( killing bots out on the field could solve even that issue and keep things interesting) and better overall refinement in future expansions.

In pretty much any other MMO out there, Healers have multiple tools to defend themselves which also compliment their healing role, try googling a few MMO's, like Tera online, Aion or even WoW, just to name a few and see how those designed their healers, and then, compare those with ours. I know that those games work in a different way than FFXIV does, but you can't deny that on first glance, they look (on paper) far better than our current skillset.

[IDontPetLalas]

While keeping things fresh is a great idea, I just got triggered as soon as you threw in open world PVP and games like Aion with FFXIV. I'll stick to Aion since I know that game best out the ones you listed- however its core game design is nothing at all like FFXIV - it was always designed as a PVP/PVE open world game with almost no safe zones for most of its history aside from its version of dungeons. Currently, its class balance is terrible, although I agree healers are currently strong in PVP.

I far prefer a game that separates PVP and PVE skills since I have seen too many cases where a job is well balanced in PVE but underperforms in PVP.

In addition, while I abhor bots I never was interested in spending my timing cleaning them up through very boring "PVP" against a bot. I'd rather stick to reporting them.

[Recon1o6]

updated the op in line with some comments

I agree that what I wrote regarding WHM's depth was misleading. So I altered its wording to "White mage is a job, it is not be a conjurer with larger heals. It must have more complexity."

also added some descriptors of the others...not like the devs are going to listen if 5.4's patch of "We want you to use aetherflow stacks on healing" is any indication :/

[Recon1o6]

welp we got the new healer
time will tell on the others, i'm certainly concerned though about the direction they've gone. My poor ast ;n;

[SweetPete]

welp we got the new healer
time will tell on the others, i'm certainly concerned though about the direction they've gone. My poor ast ;n;

I knew there were gonna get rid of one of the sects. To tough to balance. Sadly Noct got axed.