A summary of healer issues

[Recon1o6]

That's what I really want to know, why does it feel bad to press your healing?

Generally, because of the sheer volume of ogcd heals, if you're forced to use a gcd that isnt a required one, then it means you and/or your co healer messed something up since in 95% of content, that's all you need to an extent even taking into account dps standing in the bad or someone getting killed (eg zoning out when byregot moves his arena and falling)

The one exception here is whm for blood lily.

[AmiableApkallu]

I've VERY CONSISTENTLY said that there should be additional healer gameplay by reducing "healing downtime" by making it where HEALING is needed during that downtime. This is the exact opposite of "limiting...healer gameplay...during downtime". It's a different approach. You want to be a DPSer during downtime, I want to be a healer and not have much of that downtime in the first place. Your solution is to paper over the problem, which is "we have too much downtime" by distracting people with shiny key DPS rotations. My solution is to address the problem itself, "we have too much downtime".

So, how little downtime do you think healers can have while ensuring that content is clearable by its intended audience without frustration? Mind you, the comment I linked to asks only for where a healer's time should be allocated. It assumes that we can wave a magic stick to achieve that allocation.

Because, yes, there is certainly room for the game to require more healing, but I've yet to see an argument that healing requirements can be ramped up across the board in such a way as to make current healer DPS kits acceptable in what downtime remains.

[Azurarok]

Generally, because of the sheer volume of ogcd heals, if you're forced to use a gcd that isnt a required one, then it means you and/or your co healer messed something up since in 95% of content, that's all you need to an extent even taking into account dps standing in the bad or someone getting killed (eg zoning out when byregot moves his arena and falling)

The one exception here is whm for blood lily.

This is some of it yeah. It's pretty noticeable when a tank's adamant about doing wall to wall pulls while not using their mitigation well enough, or the dps is low and the mob's not dying fast enough that both the tank and I run out of oGCDs. I don't mind this sort of thing happening in ARR~mid-SB content since sprouts are learning and we also don't have that many tools until after that, but it does get to me a little when it gets around to lv70 content and up and this happens without anyone saying a word.

But also yes, it'd feel bad to have to use raise if someone died from my not healing well enough. If I fall back to a GCD heal it also makes me think if I could've done something better to not have to do that (for me it's usually been forgetting the lv86 mitigation exists). The current design does do that right.

At the same time, if you think hitting the same button every gcd for 27.5 seconds then the dot once and repeating that while the rest of your inputs are all oGCDs for 95% of content is fine then I don't know what to tell you.

White Mage also suffers from similar issues visually, since you go from having Stone and Aero to just light-based spells in ShB. This is even more highlighted by Y'shtola using 4~5 different elements as a conjurer in The Fell Court of Troia

[ForsakenRoe]

White Mage also suffers from similar issues visually, since you go from having Stone and Aero to just light-based spells in ShB. This is even more highlighted by Y'shtola using 4~5 different elements as a conjurer in The Fell Court of Troia

I'm not sure what annoys me more about the current WHM rotation, how samey it plays, or how samey it looks. Both are definitely big points of contention, of course, but I do wonder if it'd help at least a tiny bit if the DOT was green and the nuke was orangey-brown so they at least look a bit different. At least Misery is pink. Then again, Dosis is blue-white and E.Dosis is purple...

I want to have the elements back too. But I'd do it in a way where the holy light stuff we have now isn't completely removed. But then, we'd likely see people complaining about my plan because 'oh I prefer the holy lights but they're the weak filler part of the rotation, why can't the part I like be the cool strong bursty part' or such

It sounds much more boring on AST. I had the same situation happen in my reclears last week, the phys ranged stepped in the green and I had to use Adlo, Physick and Lustrate to fix it, it was more fun than just mindless Broil to be honest.

AST has to at least think a bit about what it's going to use for each raidwide, for example. Like, as WHM for the P10S raidwide, it's Lilybell if you have it, Asylum if you don't, basically. Macrocosmos is cool, but it doesn't auto-delete bleed-raidwides in the same way the Overheal Weed does, so it's not necessarily better to use it for those, instead it might be better to do CO/CU for mit/double regens, and use Macro on something else. Or not, idk I'm not good at the class. I did get a 58 this week even with the Neutral Sect incident, though, and that's with a 645 relic

[Azurarok]

I'd take something like having Stone as the standard attack, then using a non-lily GCD heal gives a buff that turns your next Stone into Glare (Banish on earlier levels?).

Then bring back AeroIII as an AoE DoT while keeping Dia the main DoT maybe?

Would also like Water somewhere too though

[Allegor]

Generally, because of the sheer volume of ogcd heals, if you're forced to use a gcd that isnt a required one, then it means you and/or your co healer messed something up since in 95% of content, that's all you need to an extent even taking into account dps standing in the bad or someone getting killed (eg zoning out when byregot moves his arena and falling)

The one exception here is whm for blood lily.

When a raidwide happened, and it's safe to just wait for Rapture/Assize, but your cohealer is spamming AHelios/Medica II (heal over time? what's that?), or the melees are turning on Bloodbath..... I'm not a "but did you die?" type healer but some people just REALLY can't stand an HP bar being below 90%

I want to have the elements back too. But I'd do it in a way where the holy light stuff we have now isn't completely removed. But then, we'd likely see people complaining about my plan because 'oh I prefer the holy lights but they're the weak filler part of the rotation, why can't the part I like be the cool strong bursty part' or such

I personally liked how EW double down on ShB's idea of giving WHM a "crystal flowers" aesthetics that blends in the light/holy and nature aspects of the job. It always lowkey annoyed me how a CNJ starts off as basically a druid and suddenly I'm a holy priest.

[Shurrikhan]

I want to have the elements back too. But I'd do it in a way where the holy light stuff we have now isn't completely removed. But then, we'd likely see people complaining about my plan because 'oh I prefer the holy lights but they're the weak filler part of the rotation, why can't the part I like be the cool strong bursty part' or such.

That much, at least, could be easily fixed by just having the elements be the set-up and the Holy/Light stuff be the less frequent burst.

My main concern, I guess, is just whether we even need one more "Hard Light" job? How many ways do we really need to express "Bright, thin, wall of force" or "shockwave/percussed zone of light"? It's no more diffuse than SGE's fatter lasers or SCH's Fey stuff.

Like, I'm fine with it, but I also don't see the appeal of including the HolyLight theme kit-wide in general except in that it offers more distinct of name changes on our generic potency upgrade traits (for a single step) than if we had stuck with elements alone. It's just kinda... there.

[AmiableApkallu]

Like, I'm fine with it, but I also don't see the appeal of including the HolyLight theme kit-wide in general except in that it offers more distinct of name changes on our generic potency upgrade traits (for a single step) than if we had stuck with elements alone. It's just kinda... there.

Getting Glare and Dia at Lv.72 post-Lv.71 MSQ makes some amount of sense, I think. By that same token, I'd expect elemental magic to return post-Lv.80/5.0 MSQ.

[Shurrikhan]

Getting Glare and Dia at Lv.72 post-Lv.71 MSQ makes some amount of sense, I think. By that same token, I'd expect elemental magic to return post-Lv.80/5.0 MSQ.

Just for the expansion-matching aesthetics? I guess that makes sense. I just don't really like how it then feels so shoehorned thereafter, like Seraph in post-ShB SCH.

If we're going to do the HolyLight theme, I suspect we should stick with it instead of it just being a 10-level one-off. I just feel like (A) there should be more consideration of future impacts before deciding whether to go for it and (B) if we're do something like a new visual theme, it shouldn't be introduced as an outright replacement for what came before, but rather as part of some new tool to slot in atop (and synergistically with) them. That then leaves a lot more freedom in how that theme is included both in ShB and in later expansions.

[ForsakenRoe]

I'd take something like having Stone as the standard attack, then using a non-lily GCD heal gives a buff that turns your next Stone into Glare (Banish on earlier levels?).

Then bring back AeroIII as an AoE DoT while keeping Dia the main DoT maybe?

Would also like Water somewhere too though

I had it the other way round: After using a specific new GCD heal tool (costs 50 of a new gauge), to make it damage neutral, your next Stone/Glare, Aero/Dia, and Water/Banish (new button, 15s CD) would upgrade for one cast each, into Quake, Tornado, Flood. Since BLM has Flare and Freeze, and Burst in PVP, I figure a way to give WHM those 'elemental capstones' would be well received. Because I'd have the gauge also build not only from single target damage, and from GCD non-Lily heals, but also from Holy at a rate that scales based on pack size (2 gauge per enemy for example), it'd allow for these cool looking moves to also spice up our AOE rotation, so that instead of pressing just Holy over and over, we have another 3 potential skills to work with

That much, at least, could be easily fixed by just having the elements be the set-up and the Holy/Light stuff be the less frequent burst.

While this is also possible (its the same idea just roles reversed), I feel like it's harder to make the holy/light thematics look more 'powerful', given they've gone with this airy 'graceful' kind of vibe for the spells we have already. Glare doesn't really have 'punch' like the earth spells did, it's more 'wispy'. Same with Dia vs Aero, and especially Aero3. Which is why I'd opt for the lightshow to be the 'standard rotation'. One of the main things about what I would want is, specifically, a way to give WHM Quake Tornado and Flood, so that it's on equal footing in terms of spell hierarchy as BLM, the job it's meant to have fought a prolonged war against. And I don't see how to do those spells justice without them being cool, flashy, but also not super accessible. We can't spam Flare, for example. We have to do 2 or 3 before going back to Ice Phase. But when we DO do those 3 Flares, it feels really good because of eg the screen shake, the heat blur, etc.

Just for the expansion-matching aesthetics? I guess that makes sense. I just don't really like how it then feels so shoehorned thereafter, like Seraph in post-ShB SCH.

That then leaves a lot more freedom in how that theme is included both in ShB and in later expansions.

Which is why Feo Ul should be a Seraph Glam option, thank you for coming to my TED talk /s

As for the other part, this is why I believe having the elements live on as a burst window, damage refund effect, whatever non-filler solution, makes sense. There's earth, wind and water on the First, right? So, even if they have been slightly umbral'd by the light, I'd argue that it stands to reason that we can still tap into their power. IDK what the logic in keeping us with Glare was after 5.0, if the reason we got it in 5.0 was lore related. Which I am pretty sure, it wasn't. I expect they did it just because they ran out of ranks to give Stone (we were at 4 in SB, so they were out of suffixes back then).

On the plus side, if that is true, either 7.0 will have the last Glare and we can have something else (since it'll have Glare 4), or they'll stop giving us filler spell upgrades and have to come up with something more unique to give us