A summary of healer issues

[IDontPetLalas]

Unless I'm missing them, I've seen a couple of people. I don't see a significant increase in people seeing that SGE outperforms SCH.

also the "left behind again" is a bit alarmist given that SGE was new and adjustments shouldn't have been a surprise, they were made fairly rapidly.

[Aravell]

Unless I'm missing them, I've seen a couple of people. I don't see a significant increase in people seeing that SGE outperforms SCH.

also the "left behind again" is a bit alarmist given that SGE was new and adjustments shouldn't have been a surprise, they were made fairly rapidly.

It's not really alarmist, SE has been known to overcorrect. See the buff war between BRD and MCH in HW, also see how RPR was ahead on EW release and then they buffed every other melee and left RPR in the trash pile for quite a while.

I'm just warning that too many people saying "SGE is way better than SCH" may be harmful to SGE in the long run if they decide to overcorrect on buffing SCH.

[IDontPetLalas]

It's not really alarmist, SE has been known to overcorrect. See the buff war between BRD and MCH in HW, also see how RPR was ahead on EW release and then they buffed every other melee and left RPR in the trash pile for quite a while.

I'm just warning that too many people saying "SGE is way better than SCH" may be harmful to SGE in the long run if they decide to overcorrect on buffing SCH.

You misunderstand. I'm saying that there are the recent posts stating that SGE is far better that SCH are not indicative of large numbers of people thinking that it is so.

We can all think of cases in every game where a job or class has been adjusted and then has needed to be corrected again. I don't want to induce some paranoia because people are going to fear that their favourite job is going to get nerfed because of their comments, I wouldn't expect that any design team with any maturity would take comments at face value. They have should have metrics in addition to empirical evidence.

[Aravell]

We can all think of cases in every game where a job or class has been adjusted and then has needed to be corrected again. I don't want to induce some paranoia because people are going to fear that their favourite job is going to get nerfed because of their comments, I wouldn't expect that any design team with any maturity would take comments at face value. They have should have metrics in addition to empirical evidence.

To be fair, we don't actually know what SE balances on, they have made decisions sometimes that leaves the majority of the community confused, I do think that people should be more careful with their words because we have no idea what SE will act on. Also, they've stated that they don't want to nerf jobs if possible, so if they take the "SGE>SCH" claims at face value, they'll just boost SCH and introduce powercreep, that's a very concerning prospect.

I'm not stating that SGE being buffed is a bad thing, it's obviously something they needed to do for it to be comparable. I'm just saying to be cautious when condemning another job and elevating your own, this could lead to unintended consequences.

[Sebazy]

Sometimes I wonder if SE know what they balance on

[Connor]

I'm just warning that too many people saying "SGE is way better than SCH" may be harmful to SGE in the long run if they decide to overcorrect on buffing SCH.

Considering how strong Scholar is currently, I’m not sure how they even could buff it without it just becoming silly lol.

That said I do totally get the point about how things are framed. I mean look at the interviews about 2-min metas and past comments about healers. They always seem to take the completely wrong thing away from feedback lol. Maybe it’s a translations issue?

[Post]

My issue with SGE has never been that it's not good enough, it's that if I wanted to play SCH, I'd play SCH. I've known how to play SCH for years, and SCH has been awesome for years.

I don't like it as much since ShB (that's the first time I stopped regularly playing it), but in EW they screwed with all the healers enough that they all feel bad compared to what they used to be like, so I just default to the classic standard usually.

SGE needs its own identity in gameplay, because aesthetics and lore are only skin deep, especially how readily they toss those if balance calls for it.

Even its mobility is silly now because almost everything it does has a ridiculous 30y range. WHM, SCH and AST got silly ground-targeted AoE range buffs, but SGE is *new* so they didn't want to give it one of those actions (despite their targeting/execution drastically easing in EW). As a result, they just made SGE have the ridiculous range instead.

Because these changes aren't tied to traits and level ranges, they have a huge impact on the legacy content of the game: Solo healing the current Unreal feels far easier than it should be (how it felt min ilvl when current), partially because range isn't a consideration anymore.

[ForsakenRoe]

Because these changes aren't tied to traits and level ranges, they have a huge impact on the legacy content of the game: Solo healing the current Unreal feels far easier than it should be (how it felt min ilvl when current), partially because range isn't a consideration anymore.

As I said somewhere else (don't remember where), on-content you had 'I can shield Dragoon Dives with only Succor, or Deploy Adlo gambling on a Crit. Soil is 6y radius' and now it's 'Kerachole is 30y and hits the whole arena. Pneuma is 25y and hits the whole arena. Panhaima is literally designed for 'multiple hits in a row mechanics' and is 30y so it hits the whole arena', it's mad how little we have to think about range and positioning compared to previously. Also the final enrage, we have like 3-4x as much mitigation options compared to back then so it's way easier to handle the spam of raidwides

[IDontPetLalas]

My issue with SGE has never been that it's not good enough, it's that if I wanted to play SCH, I'd play SCH. I've known how to play SCH for years, and SCH has been awesome for years.

I don't like it as much since ShB (that's the first time I stopped regularly playing it), but in EW they screwed with all the healers enough that they all feel bad compared to what they used to be like, so I just default to the classic standard usually.

SGE needs its own identity in gameplay, because aesthetics and lore are only skin deep, especially how readily they toss those if balance calls for it.

Even its mobility is silly now because almost everything it does has a ridiculous 30y range. WHM, SCH and AST got silly ground-targeted AoE range buffs, but SGE is *new* so they didn't want to give it one of those actions (despite their targeting/execution drastically easing in EW). As a result, they just made SGE have the ridiculous range instead.

Because these changes aren't tied to traits and level ranges, they have a huge impact on the legacy content of the game: Solo healing the current Unreal feels far easier than it should be (how it felt min ilvl when current), partially because range isn't a consideration anymore.

I don't see the whole "Sage is full of 30y range " issue but (for example)- Scholar isn't. They both have approximately the same amount from what I see - SCH has DT, Adlo, Sacred Soli, Protraction, Lustrate, Excog- at least. if anything, on Sage you needed to be in melee range for some heals initially but they expanded the range.

For Scholar. it may have had adjustments since it first came out I don't recall it wouldn't surprise as Forsaken said they've been expanding ranges, look at how big the bubble is for AST currently, it's a bit ridiculous, far be it that we think about placing it.

[ForsakenRoe]

I don't see the whole "Sage is full of 30y range " issue but (for example)- Scholar isn't. They both have approximately the same amount from what I see - SCH has DT, Adlo, Sacred Soli, Protraction, Lustrate, Excog- at least. if anything, on Sage you needed to be in melee range for some heals initially but they expanded the range.

For Scholar. it may have had adjustments since it first came out I don't recall it wouldn't surprise as Forsaken said they've been expanding ranges

In terms of 'number of mitigations available', they're pretty close after they gave SGE's Holos a shield (since it was behind on mit in DSR and it was apparently an issue there), but the point is moreso 'number of mitigations that are applicable to situation X in old content'. SCH having Soil is cool and all, but in terms of 'how does this affect SCH for Dragoon Dives' it brings its own issues because it's not got as large a radius as to cover both sides of the mechanic (north and south dive spots), either you have your marked party members be in slightly, which increases the proximity damage (and negates the benefit of the Soil), or you drop it on only one side and cover only 2/3 of the dives. Meanwhile, SGE can Kera and hit the next instance over because it's got a 30y radius. When I tried SCH in Thordan Unreal for the heck of it, I had to actually think about what I was going to use, where, because of the range issues. As SGE I put a lot less thought into things, because it almost felt like a case of 'there are no wrong answers' with how every mit had such big coverage. What does it matter if I press Holos instead of Kera, they're both gonna hit everyone anyway

The funny one is Temperance though. You think the 20y radius on Star was big, Temperance is out there at FIFTY