A summary of healer issues

[GrimGale]

Note how they both say "threefold attack".

It would immediately solve so many issues with the big crit swings that are causing issues at the moment if they just used the same damage splitting they used on Dream within a Dream. Just look at the animations on some skills, Double Down could be a 3-hitter (Swing, swing, boom), Hyosho Ranryu could be a 2-hit, it would be the quickest way to solve potency bloat until they ever decide to scrap the 2 minute burst meta.

https://youtu.be/8u7gXIOfcWQ

Shhh don't tell anyone about this.

[Shurrikhan]

https://youtu.be/8u7gXIOfcWQ

Shhh don't tell anyone about this.

I'd probably keep the single display number, personally, but damage segmentation under the hood at least would go a long way to averaging out crits, so long as guaranteed crit abilities still applied to each hit within the affected action.

The only --very minor / presently irrelevant-- downside to that would be that Crit would increasingly act as just Determination in what few potential contexts chance burst damage could matter in the future (e.g., in PvP and on enemies with low TTK HP thresholds, like T4 Knights' physical absorb breaking causing them to be stunned).

[ty_taurus]

I'd probably keep the single display number, personally, but damage segmentation under the hood at least would go a long way to averaging out crits, so long as guaranteed crit abilities still applied to each hit within the affected action.

The only --very minor / presently irrelevant-- downside to that would be that Crit would increasingly act as just Determination in what few potential contexts chance burst damage could matter in the future (e.g., in PvP and on enemies with low TTK HP thresholds, like T4 Knights' physical absorb breaking causing them to be stunned).

You could streamline segmented damage across all jobs, then create a UI option that shows you total damage or individual damage. Each hit would still appear in the log.

Tales of Graces displayed the total damage you dealt in a combo, for example, which could be a UI option for multihit attacks in Final Fantasy. This is a bit of a silly example of Tales of Grace's UI display, but it was a better quality option than the alternative.

[Shurrikhan]

You could streamline segmented damage across all jobs, then create a UI option that shows you total damage or individual damage. Each hit would still appear in the log.

Tales of Graces displayed the total damage you dealt in a combo, for example, which could be a UI option for multihit attacks in Final Fantasy. This is a bit of a silly example of Tales of Grace's UI display, but it was a better quality option than the alternative.

I feel it should be an option, either way, of course (individual hits only, cumulative, individual + sum, sum only).

I just meant that even if, for whatever reason, everyone preferred for things to look as they do now (sum only), that wouldn't prevent the reduced RNG deviation as could be had by divying up the potency of multi-hit attacks across its individual hits.



Aside/Tangent:

Personally, I don't really care one way or the other that Crits/DHits can make such a difference to a given parse, and would think that it would be plenty just to remove the bloat that is Direct Hits, return Crits to just a flat 50% damage bonus except on Guaranteed Crits (where it'd then act like Determination). And maybe also make Speed more competitive so that we still have 3 real options, and perhaps DHit, Tenacity, and Piety alike with some manner of Mastery buff (e.g., MNK's "Flowing Strikes' benefit to your damage is X% more effective and now also grants mitigation equal to X% of its damage buff").

For me, though, the largest benefit of having multi-hit skills act as multiple hits is that it seeds the ground for further potential mechanics that may be interesting in turn.

[Videra]

Well, this is my last hurrah here, for now. I'm not here to contribute to the discussion, but just to say my farewells. Take care, healer mains - I hope we can be a fun role again in the future. Adieu!

[ForsakenRoe]

Well, this is my last hurrah here, for now. I'm not here to contribute to the discussion, but just to say my farewells. Take care, healer mains - I hope we can be a fun role again in the future. Adieu!

See you around friend (i hope so too, maybe fanfest will have some info but very doubtful)

Shhh don't tell anyone about this.

Ahh there it is, the vid has some framedrops unfortunately, but yeh this, or the one I saw was the WAR one, the fell cleaves were cool.

I just went on their channel and saw they've updated some of their DMC themed works (edit: oh, another video that seems to have quite a few jobs) to have 'multihit'. Watching the SAM demonstration is cool, because it does something really interesting, from a psychology perspective: Despite the actual damage per skill being the same, changing eg Shinten to be 10 hits of 900, instead of one hit of 9000, makes it so that the real 'one big hit' strikes like Midare, Ogi, etc, feel way way meatier. When you see many small numbers like 4000, 5000, 2000 throughout the rotation, the burst window having a super strong move that deals 30000 stands out way more. I think if this was added as an option to the game people would like it's inclusion. Maybe not the DMC themed animations though, Capcom might not be too happy about that

It'd also help cement thematics more for jobs. If PLD is a class that has little/no damage segemtation (mostly just 1-2 hits on things like Atonement, or 1 hit like Holy Spirit/Confiteor), and GNB has lots of segmentation on it's hits (Gnashing Fang combo goes from 6 damage numbers up to like 18, feels way more like Renzokuken that way), then it helps to differentiate them even more in identity, because despite the gameplay having zero changes, the visual feedback says 'GNB is the fastpaced, big APM tank'. Same thing with MNK having like 3-4 numbers for each Bootshine or Phantom Rush, it'd help sell that feeling of 'very fast punch man'. Or if you don't like it just keep it turned off and the game plays as it currently does, one big number shown per skill used

edit: i just got finished watching the 'seven different jobs demo' video, while I'm not sold on all their animation changes, I do think it's cool they managed to make Tech and Standard Step feel different (Tech has segmentation because of their animation changes, Standard does not) and that's pretty cool

[Allegor]

Something I just thought while doing an Alliance roulette. Unless you're in the main tank's party, Sage's Kardia is entirely useless. I can't even play the "switch it around party members" game when nobody's even taking damage. I know Alliance raids (and dungeons, for that matter) aren't the game's main attraction or focus of balance, but dang, outright neglecting a job's main theme? that doesn't sit right.

[IDontPetLalas]

Something I just thought while doing an Alliance roulette. Unless you're in the main tank's party, Sage's Kardia is entirely useless. I can't even play the "switch it around party members" game when nobody's even taking damage. I know Alliance raids (and dungeons, for that matter) aren't the game's main attraction or focus of balance, but dang, outright neglecting a job's main theme? that doesn't sit right.

If no one is taking damage then almost every skill for most healers is going to be useless since the majority are heals. That's going to leave DPS and buffs, which is not much variety or skill expression, especially on lower lever content when you don't even get access to skills like macrocosmos.

[vetch]

It's like that with all the healers.

Embrace? Excog? Sacred Soil? Sorry, party only. Pls spam Lustrate on the ally.
COpp? Earthly Star? CU? Lady of freaking Crowns? Sorry, party only. Pls spam Essential Dignity on the ally.

Even WHM only gets 3 options without dipping into hardcasts.

On the other hand, I get it. Alliance raid fights usually use only one tank. Imagine how hard bosses would need to hit to not be trivialized by 6 healers' worth of mits and shields and free healing. Sprouts would be bursting into flames.

[Allegor]

I mean, true, but it still feels wrong not to use it, since it's the job's whole identity and not just some situational heal.