A summary of healer issues

[ForsakenRoe]

I wish SE had this sensible approach.

Best we can get is 'completely rework how cards work (again) and if it turns out to be bad/not fun/clunky/any negative descriptor, then we say 'sorry, we can't do major reworks outside of expansions you'll have to wait till next expansion'', take it or leave it, apparently

I would love to know where they got the idea that people wanted the current cards and over-focus on the 2min burst window

[Allegor]

I would love to know where they got the idea that people wanted the current cards and over-focus on the 2min burst window

Minmaxers, probably. Something something 'fishing for Balance isn't fun'... as if fishing for the proper seals was any better. If it wasn't because the seals are such a dumpster fire, I'd say the fishing issue got worse (and don't get me started on that obnoxious ranged/melee split, ugh)

*EDIT*

I apologize then, minmaxer wannabes would sound more accurate then? whoever they were, it's clear the devs listened to people who didn't want rng in a class whose entire identity is based on manipulating rng

[Shurrikhan]

Minmaxers, probably. Something something 'fishing for Balance isn't fun'... as if fishing for the proper seals was any better. If it wasn't because the seals are such a dumpster fire, I'd say the fishing issue got worse (and don't get me started on that obnoxious ranged/melee split, ugh)

Why would min-maxers care that Balance fishing "isn't fun"? Heck, for them of all people, those trickle-down of factors and weights to determine the best gamble for a given moment and ideal situations in which to spend Redraws probably was fun. It's those who didn't understand how to game that RNG who more likely disliked it.

The actual min-maxers were plenty aware that "Balance fishing" was an oversimplification, and already knew how to make the best of that situation. At most you could say that they maybe complained that while Spear, Arrow, Ewer, and Spire all played a role directly or indirectly, Bole never did because the mitigation requirements were just never high enough to need it.

Balance-fishing wasn't about just Balance. It simply had a best option each based on the availability of Spread, whether Expand was already up, time until next "raid burst", number of Redraws remaining (which had a best time in which to be used), and the difference between your highest (raw) DPS party member and your party average.

[Connor]

snip

Isn’t this ignoring what me and BRVV discussed immediately after that post? That doesn’t seem fair

Of course it’s true that no change can literally have 0 effect on players, unless they change nothing. But at the same time smaller-scale changes that work to acknowledge the issue and assuage the concerns people have can be implemented in a way that doesn’t penalise players who are don’t want the added complexity. Like if White Mages got Stoneskin back. It’s a nice tool and it’s fun to use (for me anyway), it actively helps newer players by supporting them through mechanics they may otherwise not have survived, and most importantly the content can be completed regardless of whether you use Stoneskin, or let Regen heal them up, or shield with Divine Benison etc.

Similarly with returning things like Miasma / Aero III - given how healer dps is right now, if they added them back into the game and a player just focused on using Glare / Dia, they’d still come out with ‘acceptable’ dps amounts. It would just mean that if a player did want to play more optimally, they could put out slightly more damage. But since it’s also healer dps, it wouldn’t technically matter for completion of content, since outside of Savage content the only gain one really makes from higher healer dps is slightly quicker clear times.

Of course there’d be the misinformed people who watch like a hawk for healers to make mistakes, ‘why aren’t you using Aero III you Sylphie’, ‘you slipped Miasma at 4 instead of the moment it hits 0, you deserve the Tonberry Plague’ etc. But all they’d be doing is showing their own ignorance of the game’s mechanics, because outside of savage it wouldn’t penalise healers for not engaging with those aspects of the job

As for adding damage abilities purely for the sake of damage and not to actually give the job options, I feel a good compromise is to follow PvP and have healer’s offensive abilities provide supportive effects. Like Gravity inflicting Heavy (wouldn’t work in PvE of course lol), Biolysis reducing damage dealt, Holy’s PvE Stun effect. By having a healer’s offensive actions also work to support the party in some way, it means that even should healers get more damage abilities they serve more purpose than simply padding out the dps ‘rotations’, and those supportive effects can also work to relieve some of the healing pressure

[IDontPetLalas]

Isn’t this ignoring what me and BRVV discussed immediately after that post? That doesn’t seem fair

Of course it’s true that no change can literally have 0 effect on players, unless they change nothing. But at the same time smaller-scale changes that work to acknowledge the issue and assuage the concerns people have can be implemented in a way that doesn’t penalise players who are don’t want the added complexity. Like if White Mages got Stoneskin back. It’s a nice tool and it’s fun to use (for me anyway), it actively helps newer players by supporting them through mechanics they may otherwise not have survived, and most importantly the content can be completed regardless of whether you use Stoneskin, or let Regen heal them up, or shield with Divine Benison etc.

Similarly with returning things like Miasma / Aero III - given how healer dps is right now, if they added them back into the game and a player just focused on using Glare / Dia, they’d still come out with ‘acceptable’ dps amounts. It would just mean that if a player did want to play more optimally, they could put out slightly more damage. But since it’s also healer dps, it wouldn’t technically matter for completion of content, since outside of Savage content the only gain one really makes from higher healer dps is slightly quicker clear times.

Of course there’d be the misinformed people who watch like a hawk for healers to make mistakes, ‘why aren’t you using Aero III you Sylphie’, ‘you slipped Miasma at 4 instead of the moment it hits 0, you deserve the Tonberry Plague’ etc. But all they’d be doing is showing their own ignorance of the game’s mechanics, because outside of savage it wouldn’t penalise healers for not engaging with those aspects of the job

As for adding damage abilities purely for the sake of damage and not to actually give the job options, I feel a good compromise is to follow PvP and have healer’s offensive abilities provide supportive effects. Like Gravity inflicting Heavy (wouldn’t work in PvE of course lol), Biolysis reducing damage dealt, Holy’s PvE Stun effect. By having a healer’s offensive actions also work to support the party in some way, it means that even should healers get more damage abilities they serve more purpose than simply padding out the dps ‘rotations’, and those supportive effects can also work to relieve some of the healing pressure

To add to the above (change and its effects) , I would also say that change does not affect everyone equally. I doubt that those players who are in Savage and Ultimate content would be as interested or as affected in general as those who do normal (< Extreme) content. For example- a certain percentage of those doing casual content may not use changes that they don't like , or may not even apply them because they're not aware of them - whereas that's not really not likely to happen at other levels.

[AmiableApkallu]

Of course there’d be the misinformed people who watch like a hawk for healers to make mistakes, ‘why aren’t you using Aero III you Sylphie’, ‘you slipped Miasma at 4 instead of the moment it hits 0, you deserve the Tonberry Plague’ etc. But all they’d be doing is showing their own ignorance of the game’s mechanics, because outside of savage it wouldn’t penalise healers for not engaging with those aspects of the job.

I still don't really understand this concern. Do these same people call out tanks and DPS for dying to mechanics? Because that's a far more obvious failure to execute one's rotation, and it comes with a significant penalty to one's damage output.

People ask for changes that affect the whole Job, then insist it won't matter to "casuals" since they expect that "casuals" will just not press the buttons and be fine doing less healing/damage. While it's true some will, others won't, and may notice the difference. But we're told no one will and it will only affect the hardcore of the hardcore players and no one else.

Didn't you know, if the healer chooses to use the 320p Glare instead of the 350p Water, then the party won't have enough damage and will hit enrage, because the WHM lost 120p per minute /s

Yes, 120p per minute lost is the reason my damage is so low. It's definitely not my 84% GCD uptime. /s

There is a serious point to be made here, though. Unless you're collecting spreadsheets and getting them analyzed, you have no real idea in this game what your damage is and why it's not as high as it could be. These "casuals" who are worried about "doing less healing/damage" might find that there are more profitable things to work on than worrying about some "complex" rotation.

[Recon1o6]

tbh it seems the people who hate rng the most are SE rather than elitists. I'm not going to be surprised if they remove crits or dhits.

-despite acknowledging people wanting randomness we never get any fights that have actual randomness. At most its "mechanic A, mechanic B/C, mechanic D, Mechanic B/C" or alternatively "markers on dps, different markers on non dps" nor do we get fights where the enemies have their own cooldowns on attacks like twintania and alex primes cleave
-crit damage from enemies was remove outside deep dungeon
-they removed kaiten for "variance"
-they introduced rng mitigation to ast cards
-more abilities are now auto crit and they would have done more were it not for the backlash
-2 minute fight design

With regards to changes mid expansion, they should absolutely do changes more often and with actual consistency. Why did it take till EW for whm to get actual weaving on their basic attack for example when Astro got theirs changed mid expansion in SB

[IDontPetLalas]

tbh it seems the people who hate rng the most are SE rather than elitists. I'm not going to be surprised if they remove crits or dhits.

-despite acknowledging people wanting randomness we never get any fights that have actual randomness. At most its "mechanic A, mechanic B/C, mechanic D, Mechanic B/C" or alternatively "markers on dps, different markers on non dps" nor do we get fights where the enemies have their own cooldowns on attacks like twintania and alex primes cleave
-crit damage from enemies was remove outside deep dungeon
-they removed kaiten for "variance"
-they introduced rng mitigation to ast cards
-more abilities are now auto crit and they would have done more were it not for the backlash
-2 minute fight design

With regards to changes mid expansion, they should absolutely do changes more often and with actual consistency. Why did it take till EW for whm to get actual weaving on their basic attack for example when Astro got theirs changed mid expansion in SB

FFXIV doesn't have many people dedicated for job design. I know there was a very good post a while ago that compared the number of people dedicated to that for FFXIV in comparison to a number of other MMOs, and FFXIV was quite low, and that was before a number of jobs were added.

Also- I would hope that FFXIV's job designers had nothing to do with FFXVI, because or any upcoming joint event because I expect that wouldn't have helped their workload in FFXIV.

[Absurdity]

FFXIV doesn't have many people dedicated for job design. I know there was a very good post a while ago that compared the number of people dedicated to that for FFXIV in comparison to a number of other MMOs, and FFXIV was quite low, and that was before a number of jobs were added.

Iirc according to the credits it was 4 people and maybe an intern...for 19 jobs (not counting DoL/DoH and BLU).

[Mortex]

Iirc according to the credits it was 4 people and maybe an intern...for 19 jobs (not counting DoL/DoH and BLU).

And no healer main in that group. Don’t forget the healer that became a decent player was kicked out of the dungeon test group because he was doing too much dmg and maybe even said plain walker feels like shit.