A summary of healer issues

[ASkellington]

What was said comment, just out of interest? Cos I'm not really sure what you were trying to find out from this run you did. All I see is 'if we remove every OGCD entirely from the healers, they still have enough spare time to have around 40% of their casts dedicated to doing damage in the EX roulettes', which I assume means that some people's suggestion would be 'okay then we need to not only remove every OGCD entirely, but also halve the potency of the GCDs that remain, that way we'll have only 20% of the casts be damage, that'll make healing fun'

I wonder, is this what we're gonna be doing for the month before the patch comes out? Just coming up with more and more stupid 'challenge runs' for testing how little of the 'healer role's responsibilities' we actually need to do as healers?

'Meet Kardialetics, my 'can only heal with Kardia-triggered heals' Ultimate Ironman' etc

You now have me curious to see if I can heal 90 expert with Lady of Crowns only.

I am half temped.

[ForsakenRoe]

You now have me curious to see if I can heal 90 expert with Lady of Crowns only.

I am half temped.

You'll get lords only for the entire run.

You'll still clear with zero deaths.

[ASkellington]

You'll get lords only for the entire run.

You'll still clear with zero deaths.

Not with my luck I won't.

[Sebazy]

What was said comment, just out of interest?

It was theory crafting about how much impact it would have if we moved from a primarily oGCD healing mindset to a focus on GCDs instead.

I suspect in Extremes it'd likely be more noticeable, but in Experto and 24 man, I genuinely don't think it would change much of anything as the incoming damage just isn't there.

[Renathras]

It was theory crafting about how much impact it would have if we moved from a primarily oGCD healing mindset to a focus on GCDs instead.

I suspect in Extremes it'd likely be more noticeable, but in Experto and 24 man, I genuinely don't think it would change much of anything as the incoming damage just isn't there.

In other words: The thing I pitch all the time would...probably work?

Maybe?

I think you're correct. It would be noticeable (and make harder) the high end content (at least until people hyper overgeared it), but wouldn't affect casual players in casual content. Which...is kind of what we're going for in order to make a working solution, right?

[Sebazy]

In other words: The thing I pitch all the time would...probably work?

Maybe?

I think you're correct. It would be noticeable (and make harder) the high end content (at least until people hyper overgeared it), but wouldn't affect casual players in casual content. Which...is kind of what we're going for in order to make a working solution, right?

It's not that I don't think it would have the desired effect on casual content, I just don't think it would have much if any effect at all. On higher end content it should streamline things, but I don't think it's going to be an improvement, rather it just addresses the bloat. Personally I think that recent 24 man content is the absolute low of the game for healers, perhaps even more so than soloing. Aglaia is unbearable on WHM for me at this point and Euphrosyne is only marginally better.

[Post]

Hey, thanks so much for this summary. It must have been a lot of work. I agree with most everything included, and I had a suggestion that might help with this point as it's something I've often thought a lot about myself:

Yoshi P even said that they were wanting to encourage people to play healer and tweak the balance so that its less stressful and he said much the same thing again this expansion.

Now, I don't really know if this is a good thread for discussion because of its size so I might make a separate thread for this too, but I think one of the reason players feel the healer role is 'stressful' is because of the perception that if the group wipes it's their fault. And, something that can easily lead to this is if they die or the tank dies and they can't rez them then it's all over and it's their fault.

I think that they could just let every Job rez, at least once per 5 minutes ala BLU mage. Call it Phoenix Down and make it a general action or something. SMN, RDM and Healers can keep their versions, too, but this would mean that a random duty finder group isn't wholly reliant on having extra dps that can rez or new healer players learning a fight quickly as just being brought back to life for 30 seconds would be plenty of time to heal up the group before dying to the next mechanic. Also gives healers more opportunities to watch and learn a fight while dead before rejoining the fray, which is something that other Jobs have long enjoyed.

Other than that, it'd be nice if they stopped adding so many actions that only affect your party. Like, I get that they're fixated on their Trials, Raids and Ultimates, but PvP and Alliance Raids are things that exist, too. It makes sense for AoE actions like heals or Divination to be group limited as it would trivialize raid healing even more if you could hit all players alone, but it sure is dumb that you can't use Kardia, Synastry, Aquaveil and Faerie's Embrace (anymore) and the like on the main tank of a 24 man! Or even just random players you encounter out in the wild. I'm sure Joe Catgirl out there grinding FATEs or even random enemies for crafting mats wouldn't give a damn if I played a Balance card or Excogitation on him, it's pretty hard to mob-tag credit steal in this game.

[ty_taurus]

Hey, thanks so much for this summary. It must have been a lot of work. I agree with most everything included, and I had a suggestion that might help with this point as it's something I've often thought a lot about myself:



Now, I don't really know if this is a good thread for discussion because of its size so I might make a separate thread for this too, but I think one of the reason players feel the healer role is 'stressful' is because of the perception that if the group wipes it's their fault. And, something that can easily lead to this is if they die or the tank dies and they can't rez them then it's all over and it's their fault.

I think that they could just let every Job rez, at least once per 5 minutes ala BLU mage. Call it Phoenix Down and make it a general action or something. SMN, RDM and Healers can keep their versions, too, but this would mean that a random duty finder group isn't wholly reliant on having extra dps that can rez or new healer players learning a fight quickly as just being brought back to life for 30 seconds would be plenty of time to heal up the group before dying to the next mechanic. Also gives healers more opportunities to watch and learn a fight while dead before rejoining the fray, which is something that other Jobs have long enjoyed.

Other than that, it'd be nice if they stopped adding so many actions that only affect your party. Like, I get that they're fixated on their Trials, Raids and Ultimates, but PvP and Alliance Raids are things that exist, too. It makes sense for AoE actions like heals or Divination to be group limited as it would trivialize raid healing even more if you could hit all players alone, but it sure is dumb that you can't use Kardia, Synastry, Aquaveil and Faerie's Embrace (anymore) and the like on the main tank of a 24 man! Or even just random players you encounter out in the wild. I'm sure Joe Catgirl out there grinding FATEs or even random enemies for crafting mats wouldn't give a damn if I played a Balance card or Excogitation on him, it's pretty hard to mob-tag credit steal in this game.

I had made the suggestion before that Phoenix Downs should just be reworked since they do exist as an item anyone can use. The summary of that rework is essentially, they have a 2 minute cooldown that is not shared with any other item, they can be used in combat, players can hold multiple phoenix downs instead of only 1, players get 1 free Phoenix Down for clearing any roulette once per day, and high-end duties have a 'silence phoenix down' effect similar to silence echo where phoenix downs cannot be used in combat. Ultimately, it's an item that already exists, so we may as well use it.

[Post]

I would agree except that I think going a step further to make them "not an item" and just exist as a general action would be a good idea, because otherwise it's just clogging up inventory space and providing folks with a reason to not bring them (ran out of them, didn't know about them etc. Heck, almost every week I run into a new player that doesn't know about Limit Break and that's for free). Having them as a reward from roulettes would also make them feel even more scarce, making players less likely to use them or more grudging of players that need a rez, or it would make the classic double/triple/quadruple rez a real facepalm moment.

Others have mentioned using Antidotes, Spine Drops, Smelling Salts and Echo Drops and the like, which are all really great tools very, very occasionally, but most players don't use them because they take up space and don't know they exist, and maybe a smidge of 'elixir syndrome' where you just don't wanna use consumables, ever.

I think the idea is to make rezzing more available so that healers don't have to shoulder that burden. Their job should be focused on preventing death in the first place. I also don't see a reason to arbitrarily restrict its use in all but the most specific of difficult duties like Savage Criterion, because enrage timers basically already exist in high end content to prevent sandbagging with rezzes forever. So, allowing more people to rez doesn't guarantee that you'll win those encounters, just that you'll have more opportunities to see more of them, and help your group learn them quicker.

[ty_taurus]

I would agree except that I think going a step further to make them "not an item" and just exist as a general action would be a good idea, because otherwise it's just clogging up inventory space and providing folks with a reason to not bring them (ran out of them, didn't know about them etc. Heck, almost every week I run into a new player that doesn't know about Limit Break and that's for free). Having them as a reward from roulettes would also make them feel even more scarce, making players less likely to use them or more grudging of players that need a rez, or it would make the classic double/triple/quadruple rez a real facepalm moment.

Others have mentioned using Antidotes, Spine Drops, Smelling Salts and Echo Drops and the like, which are all really great tools very, very occasionally, but most players don't use them because they take up space and don't know they exist, and maybe a smidge of 'elixir syndrome' where you just don't wanna use consumables, ever.

I think the idea is to make rezzing more available so that healers don't have to shoulder that burden. Their job should be focused on preventing death in the first place. I also don't see a reason to arbitrarily restrict its use in all but the most specific of difficult duties like Savage Criterion, because enrage timers basically already exist in high end content to prevent sandbagging with rezzes forever. So, allowing more people to rez doesn't guarantee that you'll win those encounters, just that you'll have more opportunities to see more of them, and help your group learn them quicker.

The roulette reward was meant to be a way to get them for free. You could still buy them, but the inventory argument does make sense, or make it a collectable like the aether compass. Either case if item phoenix downs are no longer needed, removing them does also reduce server load slighly, which is a growing concern as the inventory expands, but they'll eventually need a more long-term solution other than just converting a few inventory items into an action or collectable item.