Raiding is becoming less and less optional

[Lium]

I’ve never been a raider in any MMO I’ve played. That included this one. But Shadowbringers got me into it a bit because of Crystal Tower. This has prompted me to go back and do all of the old raids, and of course I did Eden and Copied Factory.

Then when the relic weapon was announced, it was revealed that you had to do the Ivalice raids in order to do the relic quests. And now it’s been revealed that starting in 5.3, CT will be required to advance in the MSQ. Or something like that.

This can only be seen as a pattern now. Raid content, which was always optional, is becoming more tied to the MSQ as characters and events that happened in the raids are having more and more impact on the main story. I feel like going forward, certain raids will be required to unlock other content as well. This is an interesting design choice on the part of the devs since FFXIV is not a raid-centric game. Or at least it wasn’t. The devs themselves stated that most people do not raid, yet now they appear to be pushing raids on people.

It’s also worth noting that raids aren’t really optional anyway if you’re really into the story, like I am. I realized this when I went back and did Bahamut, CT, Alexander and Ivalice. I skipped Void Ark but I’m doing Omega now. In each one of these raids, there are major characters and significant world building going on that really fill in the blanks of the overall history of the Source.

So, I’m wondering if this is going to be a thing now for the foreseeable future.

[Moonfish]

The raids are casual content. I don’t see a problem with them being tied to MSQ.

[Pintsized]

The raids are casual content. I don’t see a problem with them being tied to MSQ.

Your reply shows why you don't see this as a problem, one that'll drive away a LOT of players who don't raid when they can't play the MSW without enduring 24-man raids as 5.3 will force them to do .. likely SE simply wants to see more MSW boosts to those of us who don't raid, hate raiding and will cease playing if there's no way round it.

[Vaer]

If it was actual non trivial content I could see the problem. Crystal Tower bosses and even Copied Factory can be completed with several dead players and even current ones can be as well so it isn't like they are asking you to complete something that is ridiculously difficult or that requires an insane amount of effort. Anyone can complete these one time to see the story then never do them again.

I really doubt there's some conspiracy here, something probably happens in 5.3 that would make less sense if you didn't do the crystal tower quest line as some of it relates to an existing character so they just put that in there for continuity sake.

[Tizzy_Tormentor]

Your reply shows why you don't see this as a problem, one that'll drive away a LOT of players who don't raid when they can't play the MSW without enduring 24-man raids as 5.3 will force them to do .. likely SE simply wants to see more MSW boosts to those of us who don't raid, hate raiding and will cease playing if there's no way round it.

are you implying the CT raids will drive ANYONE away? you can literally drool all over your keyboard and still clear it in like 15 mins, I think you are putting too much emphasis on the "raid" aspect, they are extremely easy even for new players, the gear creep + massive nerfs have ensured it, hell even newer 24 mans aren't that difficult, harder than CT for sure, but still nothing special, even normal mode raids like Alexander, Omega and Eden are very simple for newer or casual players to jump into and have fun, the only raids that are of the difficulty you have "endure" is Savage and Ultimate. Besides, 24 mans tend to have really tight stories on em, not to mention the CT ares tied to the story of the latest expansion, going through it without doing them will make some moments fall flat imo.

Making it mandatory won't change anything, at this point, CT raids are glorified dungeons, World of Darkness requires a bit more situational awareness, but nothing you can't handle.

[Ivtrix]

Your reply shows why you don't see this as a problem, one that'll drive away a LOT of players who don't raid when they can't play the MSW without enduring 24-man raids as 5.3 will force them to do .. likely SE simply wants to see more MSW boosts to those of us who don't raid, hate raiding and will cease playing if there's no way round it.

I'd like to see the evidence that "a lot" of players will be driven away since it feels like a facade for "i dont like this and want to make it sound like many others outside a vocal minority wont either in an attempt to have legitimacy in this conversation "

[Videra]

Your reply shows why you don't see this as a problem, one that'll drive away a LOT of players who don't raid when they can't play the MSW without enduring 24-man raids as 5.3 will force them to do .. likely SE simply wants to see more MSW boosts to those of us who don't raid, hate raiding and will cease playing if there's no way round it.

Labyrinth of The Ancients and the rest of them are faceroll content that barely take more than fifteen minutes. They are by no definition raiding, so please stop overselling casual content. And I'm sorry, but if you think that 24-man raids are 'Raiding' of any proper sort, you are simply incorrect. You can quite literally nap through them, even current ones. Not a soul will be driven away, and if you are - that's just laughable.

I feel like this thread will be necro’d in a few years when raiding has become mandatory as part of the MSQ. And I don’t mean some old raid, but a current raid.

So, for those of you reading in this future, I told you so.

I don't know how to explain this to you in simpler words. You are wrong if you think this is an issue. They are tying in a trio of 24 man instances that were faceroll when they came out, and that's it. They are not asking you to sit down and do savage prog every week.

Unrelated, I'm amazed this thread hasn't migrated over to a certain subreddit...

[negiman4]

This game's categorization of "raids" is fucking retarded and extremely confusing. Let me break this down for you. Crystal Tower, Mhach, Return to Ivalice, and YoRHa: Dark Apocalypse are called ALLIANCE RAIDS. Alliance Raids are easy, casual 24-man raids that take about 30-60 minutes to clear depending on the group. These are for casual players.

The Binding Coil of Bahamut (Normal/Savage), Alexander (Savage), Omega (Savage), Eden (Savage), Unending Coil of Bahamut (Ultimate), The Weapon's Refrain (Ultimate), and The Epic of Alexander (Ultimate): These are the game's hardcore raids. These will NEVER be mandatory. They consist of 8-man parties that face extremely tight mechanics and dps checks for the game's rarest loot. All the Normal versions of these raids, with the exception of The Binding Coil of Bahamut, are casual content.

[Videra]

This game's categorization of "raids" is fucking retarded and extremely confusing. Let me break this down for you. Crystal Tower, Mhach, Return to Ivalice, and YoRHa: Dark Apocalypse are called ALLIANCE RAIDS. Alliance Raids are easy, casual 24-man raids that take about 30-60 minutes to clear depending on the group. These are for casual players.

The Binding Coil of Bahamut (Normal/Savage), Alexander (Savage), Omega (Savage), Eden (Savage), Unending Coil of Bahamut (Ultimate), The Weapon's Refrain (Ultimate), and The Epic of Alexander (Ultimate): These are the game's hardcore raids. These will NEVER be mandatory. They consist of 8-man parties that face extremely tight mechanics and dps checks for the game's rarest loot. All the Normal versions of these raids, with the exception of The Binding Coil of Bahamut, are casual content.

You're preaching to a choir of people who won't listen to you. We've been telling them that for eleven pages, now. But KEEP PREACHING IT.

[KageTokage]

I'm pretty sure that when the devs say most people don't raid, they're referring strictly to the extreme/savage/ultimate difficulty stuff.

Normal mode is very much intended as casual content (At least for post ARR, as the Binding Coil raids were tuned closer to what extreme/savage difficulty is like these days)