Raiding is becoming less and less optional

[Arngrim_Greyashe]

Eh, I'm quitting after 5.3's Shadowbringers's story-arc conclusion anyway. I won't need to do forced content I don't like if I don't even play.

So edgy and cool that you're telling us you're quitting!

[RVallant]

I'm really conflicted on this subject. I understand there should be a casual thing because some raids can be to hard and some people just want the story and lore, but other times, I miss the lore being locked behind super bosses. It made the moments felt a bit more rewarding.

Yes, I agree.

For example; I think everyone interested in the story should absolutely do The Binding Coils of Bahamut.

Will you get to do them in roulette? No.

Will you get to do them synced? Unlikely.

Best chance (and this is advice from reddit, here, in-game and discord) is to unsync advertise 'first time poetic bonus' and level 80's will blitz you through. So, you won't get the awesome fights that happen in there, and there are quite a few tough ones IMO. I remember Twintania on sync was a pain, especially dodging her annoying divebombs as a party. Or the lady's icebitten/fire nonsense etc, but taking them down was a great moment for me. Unsynced, it was just waving a lightsaber around and demolishing everything with no thought - it lessened the impact of the whole thing. Still, absolutely worth going through for the story, and there are a LOT of scenes, quite a few very long ones in the final few turns as well, so beware of PUGS spamming through it.

I hope other raids are doable on 'normal' synced, or through the roulette or whatever, it would be a shame to have to unsync run all of them on account of being late to the party.

[Videra]

Raids: Savage, Ultimate, if you really want to stretch it - extreme trials. THese have nothing to do with story.

The things with the word raid tacked on that aren't really raids: Normal raids, alliance raids.

There you go, raiding is optional.

[Ultimatecalibur]

I hope other raids are doable on 'normal' synced, or through the roulette or whatever, it would be a shame to have to unsync run all of them on account of being late to the party.

Alex, Omega and Eden normals are all part of the Duty Roulette: Normal Raids so are almost always do able with only a bit of a wait.

[Lium]

So, just reading through this thread, there appears to be a LOT of semantics going on over what is and what is not a raid. Which...is super weird.

So, to remove all the mental gymnastics and keep things as parsimonious as possible, for the purposes of this discussion, we are using Square Enix’s official definition of raids as they exist in FFXIV. Which means, any content under the Raid section in the Duty Finder is a raid, regardless of its mode (I.e. normal, savage, etc.)

This is independent of whatever definition you personally might assign to this kind of content. It matters not.

[Valkyrie_Lenneth]

So, just reading through this thread, there appears to be a LOT of semantics going on over what is and what is not a raid. Which...is super wired.

So, to remove all the mental gymnastics and keep things as parsimonious as possible, for the purposes of this discussion, we are using Square Enix’s official definition of raids as they exist in FFXIV. Which means, any content under the Raid section in the Duty Finder is a raid, regardless of its mode (I.e. normal, savage, etc.)

This is independent of whatever definition you personally might assign to this kind of content. It matters not.

Except, when you say SE says only part of the population raids, they arent talking about 24 man alliance raids. They are specifically talking about savage. They even have slides specifically dedicated to the %'s in some of the anniversary livestreams.

[Kaoru_Nagisa]

So, just reading through this thread, there appears to be a LOT of semantics going on over what is and what is not a raid. Which...is super wired.

So, to remove all the mental gymnastics and keep things as parsimonious as possible, for the purposes of this discussion, we are using Square Enix’s official definition of raids as they exist in FFXIV. Which means, any content under the Raid section in the Duty Finder is a raid, regardless of its mode (I.e. normal, savage, etc.)

This is independent of whatever definition you personally might assign to this kind of content. It matters not.

Semantics or not, still kind of a weird thing to seemingly get upset about.

Literally none of the 'required' raids (of which right now is Just CT, since you don't have to do the Bozja quests if you don't care about or want the Relic) are difficult content. The likelihood of them ever locking MSQ progression behind anything remotely difficult is slim to none, considering how vehemently the extreme casuals immediately call for nerfs to anything they have to actually put some effort into completing, such as the old Steps of Faith before they nerfed it into the ground. Even Castrum Meridianum and Praetorium weren't hard content when 2.0 dropped.

If your issue is having to play with other players in content bigger than four mans, well - guess what, that's the MM part of MMO.

Not to mention the raids you seem to be citing SE on are them referring specifically to hardcore content, not the casual/semi-midcore we have outside of Savage/Ultimate and Extreme, to a lesser extent.)

[Lium]

Semantics or not, still kind of a weird thing to seemingly get upset about.

Literally none of the 'required' raids (of which right now is Just CT, since you don't have to do the Bozja quests if you don't care about or want the Relic) are difficult content. The likelihood of them ever locking MSQ progression behind anything remotely difficult is slim to none, considering how vehemently the extreme casuals immediately call for nerfs to anything they have to actually put some effort into completing, such as the old Steps of Faith before they nerfed it into the ground. Even Castrum Meridianum and Praetorium weren't hard content when 2.0 dropped.

If your issue is having to play with other players in content bigger than four mans, well - guess what, that's the MM part of MMO.

Not to mention the raids you seem to be citing SE on are them referring specifically to hardcore content, not the casual/semi-midcore we have outside of Savage/Ultimate and Extreme, to a lesser extent.)

The bold part sort of invalidated your point because it comes off as a dig to "filthy casuals". For the record, I'm not upset about the new direction of this game, I just found it interesting.

If you read my OP I even said I've voluntarily gone back and done all the old raids just for fun. It's just odd that they would start requiring raids to advance in the MSQ, if they do indeed do more of that in the future.

[Adrameliya]

As a very casual and average player, I don't see any problem with that. If anything, it gives me some motivation to get better.

such as the old Steps of Faith before they nerfed it into the ground.

I miss the old Steps of Faith, I loved firing the cannons and dragon killer harpoons. It was fun and very chalenging, i'm still very disapointed they nerfed it so much.

[Gemina]

Bahamut and Alexander (Normal) actual felt like raids as they made you feel like you where infiltrating and fighting through dangerous locations. Omega and Eden have felt more like a series of interconnected trials. It is funny how the existence or nonexistence of trash fights can seriously change how a raid feels.

I agree. Though the thing about the 8-man raids of old (and current) is that you only face one boss, which is a pretty big distinction between those and the Alliance Raids. I believe this is why a lot of players where like, "Screw the trash. Just gimme the boss."

The thing people call "raids" are trials, all trials are "full party" content, and alliance raids are the closest thing we have to actual raids, but have almost no group-interdependency and no requirements for group fluidity, meaning they really arent raids, just content for 3 fixed-on-entry full parties.

Its all backwards!

I don't put much thought into it. You have a colloquial term vs the actual definition of it. Many of those exist in the mmo genre, and you just have to let some stuff slide if you're someone who is anal-retentive. However, what I feel needs to be corrected is the dismissal of Alliance Raids not being coordinated, as they very much are. Everyone still has a role to fill in there, and for healers, it is quite possibly the only content in the game where their primary function in a party is consistently called upon.

In contrast to what some might say about Alliance Raids, players do need to work together. If the majority of the players do not work together, those raids will not get cleared. What can make them cumbersome is when you get several players in there who don't know what's going on, and this is ok. Just like actual playgrounds, most figure out how to use the equipment on their own, and do so even faster if someone is kind of to explain how it works.

What Alliance Raids do lack is the requirement for optimization. What you refer to is synchronization, or synergy between 8 party members in order to obtain a clear, and that will never be a requirement for 24-man. Even true synchronized sports that have the team consistently practice together don't have that many players involved. Alliance raids are supposed to be fun and engaging. And by "fun", I mean there isn't pressure there to perform optimally, but you're A-game is still very much appreciated. They are engaging, because they're chaotic. You have awesome music going on, explosions everywhere, players doing damage, players supporting, players dropping, MPKs, and clutch saves. Without question my favorite content to do in this game.