6.0 Bard complete rework please

[SweetPete]

I would love to see a completely different bard for 6.0. To me this iteration of bard is horrible. This is more of a ranger/archer class than a super buffing job. Bards are storytellers and they sing songs. A 1% damage increase really square enix? Really? Our support skills should be up there with dancer and we are no where near it. We play one instrument for songs and that’s a harp, and a quick flash of it too. Not something ongoing like dancers DDR dance mechanic. When I play bard I don’t feel like I’m helping my team at all other than damage. I understand this is a simplified dps era but sheesh can bards gets some love in 6.0. I’m quite sure you all will show the healers allot of love because Ast and Sch are horrible as well this expansion. At this point I’d rather them just keep this current “Bard job” rename it ranger then create a brand new actual bard class where we can actually buff and feel like real bards. This current job is not a bard to me. It’s a ranger job.

[Duelle]

Bards are storytellers and they sing songs.

That's only part of the bard archetype. It you want to delve deeper into that, BRD should also be manipulating/charming enemies into helping you during combat, be able to hold their own in a melee and talk their way out of dangerous situations.

Our support skills should be up there with dancer and we are no where near it.

If anything, I'd suggest giving some attacks a musical spin. A long time ago I suggested replacing Windbite with Wind Threnody (instead of being an arrow that deals DoT damage, it'd be a song that deals DoT damage). Reconceptualize Foe's Requiem to be used offensively in some capacity and you'd have a good starting point.

[SpeckledBurd]

I don't think Bard needs a rework so much as to have the Shadowbringers 'rework' undone. Its kit isn't mechanically busted to the point of being obnoxious to play like Astrologian's is, nor is it full of overly Niche/useless skills in the way that Monk's is, both of which are the jobs that probably are in need of a rework. Bard however fundamentally still plays fine and doesn't really have much in terms of skill bloat, it just had it's identity ripped out at the roots and handed to Dancer to its detriment.

IMO Stormblood Bard was pretty much the best received iteration of the job in the game's history, if they reintroduced some of the concepts they removed like Foe Requiem with some numerical tweaks to fit the current design of the game which has less emphasis on raid buffs, then Bard will regain some of its lost identity and its players will be happier.

At that point the ranged balance can be Machinist on top of Personal Damage, with Bard and Dancer tied or close to tied for personal numbers, but they both make up that gap with their buffs in different ways. Dancer turbocharges their dance partner to the effect of 1500-2000 DPS over the fight as they do currently, while Bard subtly buffs everyone to around the same raid contribution.

[SweetPete]

I just want bard to be more support type like they are suppose to be. I want more emphasis on instruments to do damage. Everything doesn’t have to be with the bow and arrow. When you think of bard you think of hugely supporting the party. Now it’s just mostly damage. The support they offer is just so minor. I’d love a mechanic like dancer DDR and nin mudras but for bard. I want that support back

[SweetPete]

I don\\\\'t think Bard needs a rework so much as to have the Shadowbringers \\\\'rework\\\\' undone. It\\\\'s kit isn\\\\'t mechanically busted to the point of being obnoxious like Astrologian\\\\'s is, nor is full of overly Niche/useless skills in the way that Monk\\\\'s is. Bard fundamentally still plays fine, it just had it\\\\'s identity ripped out at the roots and handed to Dancer to its detriment.

IMO Stormblood Bard was pretty much the best received iteration of the job in the game\\\\'s history, if they reintroduced some of the concepts they removed like Foe Requiem with some numerical tweaks to fit the current design of the game which has less emphasis on raid buffs, then Bard will regain some of its lost identity and its players will be happier.

At that point the ranged balance can be Machinist on top of Personal Damage, with Bard and Dancer tied or close to tied for personal numbers, but they both make up that gap with their buffs in different ways. Dancer turbocharges their dance partner to the effect of 1500-2000 DPS over the fight as they do currently, while Bard subtly buffs everyone to around the same raid contribution.

You’re right maybe I went overboard with a complete rework. However, bards support skills should be top notch. Now it just sucks. Final fantasy 11 did bard justice. Granted they just basically stood around and buffed the party and that will be super boring in ffxiv but they can pull inspiration from it like they do with other jobs anyway. I just want it offer more support, different instruments and let those shine as well. Not just focus so heavily on doing damage that we forget what bard truly is.

[Kalise]

Really, SE has shot themselves in the knee with BRD.

Firstly, because of how they didn't abandon the Class > Job thing with the start of ARR, meaning that BRD is built upon ARC, so much of their core kit is purely using bows to shoot people.

So that the BRD aspect of the job is simply tacked on top, adding a few extra skills to the kit rather than having the job be crafted around being a bard with its focus entirely on songs and music.

This also means they have the awkward situation where people have to play BRD if they want to play a class that uses bows to shoot people, whilst also trying to make BRD feel like an actual bard.

Secondly, they're kinda screwed because they want to move away from heavy support classes. Due to how it affects the meta because buffs > all, which lead to the prominence that was 6 years of BRD being omnipresent in literally every static, with Trick Attack Ninja being close to the same prevalence.

This means it's much harder to accurately capture the feeling of being a Bard, even in XIV's more limited showing of BRD which is more or less just about buffing allies in combat with songs (Given we really just follow the path of a militarized bard, looking for songs that are usable by Gridania's gaurd)

[Rika007]

I don't think Bard needs a rework so much as to have the Shadowbringers 'rework' undone. It's kit isn't mechanically busted to the point of being obnoxious like Astrologian's is, nor is full of overly Niche/useless skills in the way that Monk's is. Bard fundamentally still plays fine, it just had it's identity ripped out at the roots and handed to Dancer to its detriment.

IMO Stormblood Bard was pretty much the best received iteration of the job in the game's history, if they reintroduced some of the concepts they removed like Foe Requiem with some numerical tweaks to fit the current design of the game which has less emphasis on raid buffs, then Bard will regain some of its lost identity and its players will be happier.

At that point the ranged balance can be Machinist on top of Personal Damage, with Bard and Dancer tied or close to tied for personal numbers, but they both make up that gap with their buffs in different ways. Dancer turbocharges their dance partner to the effect of 1500-2000 DPS over the fight as they do currently, while Bard subtly buffs everyone to around the same raid contribution.

This is the real answer right here. Stormblood Bard was legitimately LOVED, by damn near every Bard player out there. It actually felt like the fantasy Bard the 14 community set up as where it was just as much an archer as it was a musician. It was easy to pick up but the difference between an average one and a truly great one was felt and noticed. You may not have been a true support but between picking the right time for troubadour, using palisade to block auto attacks after a huge tank buster and all cool downs have been exhausted, timing minne with your healers, using foe's and battle voice at the perfect time for all big raid cool downs, then using refresh to either extend usage of Foe's or after to get another foe's in under the next burst window. You felt like you were always active, always doing something. Now you just feel like you're active for 45 out of 90 seconds.

[MPNZ]

Really, SE has shot themselves in the knee with BRD.

Firstly, because of how they didn't abandon the Class > Job thing with the start of ARR, meaning that BRD is built upon ARC, so much of their core kit is purely using bows to shoot people.

So that the BRD aspect of the job is simply tacked on top, adding a few extra skills to the kit rather than having the job be crafted around being a bard with its focus entirely on songs and music.

This also means they have the awkward situation where people have to play BRD if they want to play a class that uses bows to shoot people, whilst also trying to make BRD feel like an actual bard.

Secondly, they're kinda screwed because they want to move away from heavy support classes. Due to how it affects the meta because buffs > all, which lead to the prominence that was 6 years of BRD being omnipresent in literally every static, with Trick Attack Ninja being close to the same prevalence.

This means it's much harder to accurately capture the feeling of being a Bard, even in XIV's more limited showing of BRD which is more or less just about buffing allies in combat with songs (Given we really just follow the path of a militarized bard, looking for songs that are usable by Gridania's gaurd)

TBH, fixing the issues with haste canceling actions by having proper cancels or after images finishing canceled actions could open BRD to having a way more interesting flow and raise it's utility by syncing with how the songs affect it's archer toolkit and vice versa. So, the mixing is just not well handled in implementation and can be made more with a few changes (UI and affects) and fixes to issues which might be very difficult with the games code (via Dev team: please explain or show just how bad the code is).

I wish we could: party-wide haste in AP, MP refresh with blood letter/ROD/pitch perfect in MB, a circular aoe warden's, a party-wide NM, return foies requiem in some form, three shared stacks for ROD & BL, UI changes to better keep track of DoTs and other gauges, a second system for PP/RA/SV/notes/BL procs based on crit scaling (because that was fun in StB), Changes to make early levels not spr boring, apex Arrow to have a set cost (not all of it), SV becoming a resource, MP to be used again, et cetera

And just before you tell me it's like way to OP: this can totally be done requiring skill to upkeep certain effects like FR and Haste percentiles. And most jobs are super restricted or just dull, atm. IMO, all of the jobs area shell of what they actually could be

P.S. ShB and SW are still redundant and boring

[DPZ2]

Firstly, because of how they didn't abandon the Class > Job thing with the start of ARR, meaning that BRD is built upon ARC, so much of their core kit is purely using bows to shoot people.

So that the BRD aspect of the job is simply tacked on top, adding a few extra skills to the kit rather than having the job be crafted around being a bard with its focus entirely on songs and music.

The core kit was using bows to shoot people, sure. But there have been 7 years of additions to that kit, and the storyline is still about the Warrior of Light, not about the Support Person of Light.

I've played a 'support-style' Minstrel, and I would not want to subject a raid to this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=reGuIc3i2IE&t=47s

From experience, the so-called Support Roles never seem to work out in an MMO. I have only played one or two that even thought to demand a support role in a dungeon instance, and those never went over well.

Be happy with what you have, continue to suggest changes, but don't ever expect a complete reworking that would (a) upset all of us who are fairly happy with the way things are currently and (b) require a rewrite of at least 3 expansions worth of job quests and (c) require every Bard in the game to throw up there hands and ask "where the heck is my Bard?"

[SweetPete]

All I know is in 6.0 bards better get an ability called “Duet” lol much like dancers Closed Position. Haha. I’d love that.