Healer Unhappiness exists on the Jap Healing Forums as well.

[Recon1o6]

All the healers need some form of utility, or a dps output to make up for it. That's how it works for the other two roles. One of WHM's many weaknesses is the complete absence of any utility, and its personal output not being sufficient is one of the many reasons it was booted out of hardcore raiders back in Sb.

WHM's shouldn't suffer having their identity being "Good at healing and nothing else" since that means little in this game where healing has a skill ceiling lower than a lalafell in all but a handful of duties

It doesn't surprise me the jp folks hate current healers as well, but I'm curious if they are being responded to by their community representatives at all >> it'd be nice to receive some acknowledgement now 6.0 is on the horizon of the ridiculous amount of issues and how they will address them, if at all.

[glamazon]

I don't think utility should be the core of WHM's identity, that belongs to AST.

Exactly! Core identity is vital.
WHM big heals big dmg it needs more damage spells for a real combo rotation

AST group buffs not just damage but speed in combat, spell speed, mitigation,

SCH debuffing and add charm with one of the fairies allowing it to charm a mob to fight with the group this would keep it from healing but make the second fairy useful again. Also enough debuffs to end spamming

[Mansion]

I don't think utility should be the core of WHM's identity, that belongs to AST.

While not being core, they could have some. Healers can all do the healing job in any composition and any situation. All healers now have quick burst reactive healing, strong regens and forms of shielding / mitigation.
They don't know how to make WHM stand out compared to AST because AST can do the same healing output and bring utility.
And while the numbers seem ok on paper in terms of balance, WHM's problem is that for a "strong personal DPS" identity, DPSing is not that interesting. And AST and SCH do prety much the same thing during their filler time. That does not work identity-wise.

[Semirhage]

Potency-wise, WHM is superior on both healing and Damage to SCH and AST. In an uncoordinated group at least, which happens to be make up most content in this game.

...huh? Damage sure, because that's how raid buffs (don't) work when you're the only competent person in a party full of randoms. But healing? AST and SCH have busted strong oGCD healing, which is objectively superior to GCD healing. WHM's a stronger healer if they spam their GCD heals on overhealing like a curebot.

I personally think WHM should be BLM's counter-part healing wise. Long, very powerful nukes combined with quick burst heals and strong damage+healing oGCDs to weave in. Spice things up with self buff that need to be maintained and a mobility spell to help. If there is a job that deserves weaving damage and healing together that's WHM.

Sounds like it has potential. Glarebot is nowhere close to those things. Instead, Squeenix seems to want WHM to be "the GCD healer". The problem there is the game's combat system makes oGCD healing just flat out better than GCD heals unless the oGCDs aren't sufficient enough to keep things going. Now, the solution here isn't necessarily that healers should be homogenized along their oGCD potential. But the thing is, as skill level increases, GCD healing IS worse than oGCD healing, and the power budget for the healer kits reflects their floor rather than their ceiling. Historically Scholar has better supported weaving healing and damage together, and it's no surprise. Needing to deal damage is near constant. Needing to heal isn't. The most straightforward way to create a healer that's great at weaving powerful damage and healing together with no offensive utility to manage is to design it like early Scholar: most of your GCD focused on a robust damage kit and a large portion of your healing budget goes to quick, powerful oGCDs.

Plus, the community would have a collective stroke if WHM's damage gap were anywhere near the gap between BLM and RDM. If there's anything I've learned from watching the forums since ARR, it's that AST and SCH mains think they should have literally 100% of the utility (offensive, defensive, or otherwise) AND be better at damage for it, because "it's not fair if we're harder to play and have lower output".

I don't think utility should be the core of WHM's identity, that belongs to AST.

Good thing I didn't say "core" then. AST and SCH mains think "giving WHM any utility at all" means "encroaching on AST and SCH identity", meanwhile there is no reverse scenario because WHM doesn't have an identity to encroach on, because "having GCD heals" and "having one damage spell to spam" isn't an identity, it's a skeleton of baseline requirements you build an actual job from.

[Mansion]

...huh? Damage sure, because that's how raid buffs (don't) work when you're the only competent person in a party full of randoms. But healing? AST and SCH have busted strong oGCD healing, which is objectively superior to GCD healing. WHM's a stronger healer if they spam their GCD heals on overhealing like a curebot.

Agree, and that's something very important actually. While WHM does have the strongest AoE healing in the form of Plenary > Cure III (all this under an Asylum or Temperance, Thin Air and PoM if you want), healing is a finite value. There is no need to heal more than "enough so that the next hit is not lethal". And this completely negate WHM's healing potential. Yes it's strong, but the other two healers can just heal the amount needed by any given fight, and that's it for healing, back to downtime.

[Liam_Harper]

I do agree WHM needs a more elaborate DPS rotation, but I don't see why giving it more utility skills would be the magical solution.

I personally think WHM should be BLM's counter-part healing wise.

I actually agree and I'd be fine with seeing WhM being the BLM counter-part of healers. An identity of solid healing and dps slots in fine (as long as it's engaging) because rdps and keeping the group alive is what matters in the end. BLM and SAM function off raw dps alone and are two of the top classes in the game. The biggest issue right now however is that WhM does not have the identity of raw dps and healing. It only gets to pick one. A WhM can do good raw dps at the cost of low hps, or high hps at a hefty dps cost. Not both. Even worse, it only gets to pick option #1 when paired with AST or it hurts the co-healer.

AST is the perfect example of "good at healing". Cost free weave healing that lets you do maximum damage is key in a game that focuses around enrage timers. It supports co-healers with dps tax too, by shouldering some of the burden. Having to spam GCD's and hurt the overall raid-dps to reach unnecessarily high hps numbers is not "good at healing".

WhM is just riddled with weaknesses and the class is a huge inexperienced player trap, luring them in with strong GCD's while they don't realize it all comes at a cost that good play can never overcome.

For WhM to keep the no-utility identity, it has to lose a weakness or two. Its dps or healing can't come at a high cost or it loses the point. Even BLM is very mobile played well. A good BLM doesn't have to choose between hurting the fellow co-dps or hurting itself.

[GrimGale]

Needing to deal damage is near constant. Needing to heal isn't. The most straightforward way to create a healer that's great at weaving powerful damage and healing together with no offensive utility to manage is to design it like early Scholar: most of your GCD focused on a robust damage kit and a large portion of your healing budget goes to quick, powerful oGCDs.

Good thing I didn't say "core" then. AST and SCH mains think "giving WHM any utility at all" means "encroaching on AST and SCH identity", meanwhile there is no reverse scenario because WHM doesn't have an identity to encroach on, because "having GCD heals" and "having one damage spell to spam" isn't an identity, it's a skeleton of baseline requirements you build an actual job from.

I'd say WHM deserves oGCDs more than SCH. I still don't understand why Lilly spells are not oGCDs. They would be perfect to weave in with Damage spells. (Or vice-versa.

I'd happily trade away oGCD healing on my SCH for a more elaborate debuff system. After all, planning ahead seems to be part of SCH's identity, and GCDs are great for that.

[Ceasaria]

For WhM to keep the no-utility identity, it has to lose a weakness or two. Its dps or healing can't come at a high cost or it loses the point. Even BLM is very mobile played well. A good BLM doesn't have to choose between hurting the fellow co-dps or hurting itself.

Or maybe add weaknesses to the other two healers.
We just keep removing weaknesses from healers with each expansion adding, it's not good.
The last, was MP management for AST (because of his unnecessary rework of course).

[Absurdity]

I'd say WHM deserves oGCDs more than SCH. I still don't understand why Lilly spells are not oGCDs. They would be perfect to weave in with Damage spells. (Or vice-versa.

I'd happily trade away oGCD healing on my SCH for a more elaborate debuff system. After all, planning ahead seems to be part of SCH's identity, and GCDs are great for that.

Because WHM already has too many oGCDs compared to actual weaving opportunities, adding even more isn't gonna magically fix that.

Or maybe add weaknesses to the other two healers.
We just keep removing weaknesses from healers with each expansion adding, it's not good.
The last, was MP management for AST (because of his unnecessary rework of course).

Except that this is one weakness that needs to be adjusted if WHM is supposed to be the "BLM of healers".
It's dps needs to be powerful enough to make up for the times where it has to stop dpsing to actually heal. Currently WHM's dps flatlines if it wants to make full use of it's powerful healing kit, whereas AST contributes rDPS on par, if not superior, to WHM's personal DPS with no cost to it's healing output.

[Mansion]

Or maybe add weaknesses to the other two healers.
We just keep removing weaknesses from healers with each expansion adding, it's not good.
The last, was MP management for AST (because of his unnecessary rework of course).

I don't like this philosophy. My post earlier is brushing this. Balancing by taking down the other two jobs is not a good idea (see 5.0 launch AST and current SCH issues with fairy and such).
Adding a gameplay challenge is another thing, making a DPS rotation / MP management a challenge rewarding for a healer for instance. Knowing how to make the best of any given ability etc.
But introducing clunky mechanics or drawbacks for the sake of correcting a job that performs too good because another is lagging behind, this is a terrible idea.