Tanking Adjustments - PLD/WAR

[darkvision]

i said this in another thread

PLD i would like to see a few things done:-

* Natural magic damage mitigation
* * starting at -5% MDT, MND increases % reduction max -25%

* Decent accuracy
* * This should not hurt as they do alot less dmg but would be great not to wiff WS for combo's

* Improved Defence mitigation
* * A natural PDT of ~10-15% reduction

* Better shield mastery
* * Increase the block rate

* Natural reduction of spell interuptions
* * ~50-60% reduction at max level

[SionDurant]

i said this in another thread

Ahh awesome,

I apologize I hadn't seen it I'll try and find it and staple it onto my post. My goal here is to organize our thoughts without negative banter seen on some of the other threads so I appreciate you posting that.

[Possum440]

The fix for a paladin is really quite easy and it doesnt require messing with any other class one bit. I do not use the forums alot, mostly to read and seldom if ever make a post. If the devs want a fix they have only to contact me, being retired i would not require much in the way of compensation.

Many of you have some nice ideas, but a simply more elegant solution for the paladin is out there and i have it, for a price. Remember folks, never give ideas away for free, posting on the forums with your ideas or fixes gives devs free reign in using anything free of charge, just an fyi. I know folks want to help improve the game and i have read some really great ideas in other areas, some implemented by this company, it is up to you how you proceed to enjoy your product.

[Enfarious]

The fix for a paladin is really quite easy and it doesnt require messing with any other class one bit. I do not use the forums alot, mostly to read and seldom if ever make a post. If the devs want a fix they have only to contact me, being retired i would not require much in the way of compensation.

Many of you have some nice ideas, but a simply more elegant solution for the paladin is out there and i have it, for a price. Remember folks, never give ideas away for free, posting on the forums with your ideas or fixes gives devs free reign in using anything free of charge, just an fyi. I know folks want to help improve the game and i have read some really great ideas in other areas, some implemented by this company, it is up to you how you proceed to enjoy your product.

I'm more than happy to pay for a game I enjoy, why would I try to get them to give me money to make it more enjoyable for me? Usually when someone "works" for you, you pay them. If my ideas get used the only "reward" I want is to be able to say "Hey I suggested that."
What ever happened to people doing things for the good of the community at large? Without thought of reward for themselves? Isn't that what being a part of a community is?
I guess the year of F2P time could also be called my "payment" for any ideas that I happen to offer too.

[Madruk]

None of those suggestions would encourage use of a paladin over a warrior simply because the warrior adds more damage and you don't need more mitigation to complete any of the current content with ease. The "raids" encourage speed and a paladin offers nothing that would complete them more efficiently.

Until there's content that absolutely requires a paladin (doubtful till 2.0, and even then it's a mild advantage single target tanking), warriors will still be king.

[Arkine]

None of those suggestions would encourage use of a paladin over a warrior simply because the warrior adds more damage and you don't need more mitigation to complete any of the current content with ease. The "raids" encourage speed and a paladin offers nothing that would complete them more efficiently.

Until there's content that absolutely requires a paladin (doubtful till 2.0, and even then it's a mild advantage single target tanking), warriors will still be king.

Maybe if the adjustments for PLD's mitigation is high enough that it eliminates the need for 2 WHMs in favor of another DPS, wouldn't that solve the issue?

Personally, if they would change Divine veil from a 40sec recast 20sec ability to a stance like Rampage and Berserk (Maybe All damage taken -25~40% while drastically reducing attack, making Spirits Within your only "real" damaging attack) That would fill my PLD = 1 WHM, WAR = 2WHMs criteria and I'd be alot more than satisfied.

[Madruk]

I think really the only debate can be on paladin usefulness in boss fights, dungeon trash clearing a warrior is superior. Even then, most boss fights currently can be done reliably with 1 whm as a warrior tank. There's just not enough justification to bring a paladin over a warrior with how the content is designed.

[SionDurant]

None of those suggestions would encourage use of a paladin over a warrior simply because the warrior adds more damage and you don't need more mitigation to complete any of the current content with ease. The "raids" encourage speed and a paladin offers nothing that would complete them more efficiently.

Until there's content that absolutely requires a paladin (doubtful till 2.0, and even then it's a mild advantage single target tanking), warriors will still be king.

Well it's always going to be a matter of opinion, but on tougher fights where a resilient tank will be needed, something with higher mitigation will be appreciated. Either way though as they are now, Paladins are in somewhat of a lackluster shape.

If anyone's after more damage for the paladin, they will be sad. The only paladin to ever hit any kind of hard in the whole FF series was Cecil Harvey, but he was all kinds of amazing. I could see a bit of burst maybe being thrown our way but I'm not expecting anything. I will say I wish war drum was harder hitting, I miss Circle Slash :-(.

SE won't ever add more damage than rival tanks to us, which probably is a good thing, it's good to have a different variety in tanks.

[Veridian]

"PLD doesn't need more enmity" - Gungslinger. What kind of super paladins have you been partying with? Send some towards Sargatanas please >>;
I glance at the above and people speak of resilience and buffing pld with mitigation...look, none of that matters if they lose threat. And PLD does lose threat quite easily compared to warrior. Just go with a few pick up groups into AV, fight Coincounter with a PLD and see for yourself. Or go into Ifrit with a PLD, they take a while to build up threat compared to warrior. I have not partied with a single PLD that can hold threat consistently ever since the class came out, but warriors have been doing fine is what I have noticed. Not only that, warriors just deal more damage in addition to being the tank, making them more valuable to end boss fights faster. Madruk's right, there is no justification in using PLD over WAR right now.

[Aceofspades]

"PLD doesn't need more enmity" - Gungslinger. What kind of super paladins have you been partying with? Send some towards Sargatanas please >>;
I glance at the above and people speak of resilience and buffing pld with mitigation...look, none of that matters if they lose threat. And PLD does lose threat quite easily compared to warrior. Just go with a few pick up groups into AV, fight Coincounter with a PLD and see for yourself. Or go into Ifrit with a PLD, they take a while to build up threat compared to warrior. I have not partied with a single PLD that can hold threat consistently ever since the class came out, but warriors have been doing fine is what I have noticed. Not only that, warriors just deal more damage in addition to being the tank, making them more valuable to end boss fights faster. Madruk's right, there is no justification in using PLD over WAR right now.

Not nessicarly true. WAR uses physical damage as its main hate generator. PLD uses abilties mainly to generate hate, where damage delt has no effect to the enmity it generates. Think about it for a second. On tuff mobs that are going to be obviously resiliant to dps wich do you honestly think is gona hold hate better. Fact is when the damage delt by the war is greatly effected soo is their hate generation. This can be countered by gearing your WAR up much like a DD but then that neglects its tanking role and in turn the WAR takes a larger amount of damage. Even with Rampage, war takes anywhere from twice to 75% more damage then PLD. Sure their HP helps this issue but now that HP on WAR is gimped that edge has lost alot of luster. PLD obviously has moves in wich it needs TP as well, soo how do we generate enough TP to keep the hate flowing non stop? simple, if the fight is agains a boss that deals massive damage (500-1500) a hit at a relativly fast rate it realy dosent take much to fill the TP bar on PLD. Claims that PLD cant generate enough tp cuz of low dps is simply false, I NEVER have issues with spaming hate abilites durring a boss fight. Also important to remember when fighting bosses that hit heavy your WHMs will heal alot more often on a tank with far less def and or vit. Example : my war will take 700 damage on avg from a swipe in my best tank gear (also noting the damage delt gose way down due to gear set up for tanking) where as my pld only gets hit for 400 on avg. In that situation not only dose the WARs 500 more HP offer little to no real advantage or PLD but hate loss is a bigger risk due to the lack of DD stats on war.