What do you guys think is the cause of severe lack of Tank users?

[Nedkel]

Its not the case of SE trying to make dungeons more interesting, but a case of stupid design decisions and "self balancing" designing if i would have to call it.

Why we cant have AOE and single target merged together to create more engaging gameplay, where your best skill could do aoe damage and have more skills to rotate in. It only takes space for separate aoe and single target skills, creating an illusion of complexity where there is none. Why cant we have a 1-2-3 combo turned into aoe combo, and another 2 buttons reserved for OGCD? Whats the sense there is trying to "balance" out the dps output against multiple targets, things dying faster would feel so much better.
Balancing the multi target and single target combos and creating two separate rotations, dividing our crucial keybind space for 2 things is the worst design decision ever made in this game.
Instead of having 1 rich and fun to play skillset we are left with pathetic 1-2-3 and 1-2, this is complete nonsense.

[Lyth]

Knowing when to use single target and when to use AoE is one of the few ways left that you can be smart about optimisation. It's also one of the few ways at present in which your position sense as a tank can benefit your team.

Combo systems exist because 1-1-1 gets tedious over a three to five hour stretch of relatively static, predictable gameplay. That's also the reason why PvP can afford to condense down so much button bloat.

[MerlinCross]

Knowing when to use single target and when to use AoE is one of the few ways left that you can be smart about optimisation. It's also one of the few ways at present in which your position sense as a tank can benefit your team.

Combo systems exist because 1-1-1 gets tedious over a three to five hour stretch of relatively static, predictable gameplay. That's also the reason why PvP can afford to condense down so much button bloat.

3+ AoE. Oh look most trash pulls are 4 or higher.

Also that’s the level of optimization we’re dealing with?

[Lyth]

Yes. The rest is ping.

[ReiMakoto]

3+ AoE. Oh look most trash pulls are 4 or higher.

Also that’s the level of optimization we’re dealing with?

Actually all the tanks have situational 2 target dps gains which has been ultilised in both raid tiers so far as well as ultimate. For example on gnb their aoe is a dps gain at 2 targets with the exception of the gnashing combo over fated, so for example on titan you could gain extra damage from aoeing when gaols turned up or in eden prime you could stand in a specific spot and hit 2 orbs and eden prime on aoe. This tier you can get some aoe off before one becomes invincible on ifrit and garuda. Lots of optimisation space in that regards

[Bhearil]

Personally SE dropped the ball hard on both Healers and Tanks. On tanks case they tried to standarize jobs so hard that they neutered jobs identity alongside of nerfing their ceiling, damage and responsabilities.

Right now tanks are easier to play than ever, with some classes being copies of each other (hello Dark "Warrior" nice "rework" we got there even if its more functional than before its far more boring), no need to manage aggro unless you forget to turn tank stance on etc. No wonder many tanks said "screw this ill go dps at least ill have more fun", since imo gameplay wise is the worst expansion by far and even some dps jobs, the least affected jobs since healer and tanks got hit hard, are in quite poor state (Someone in SE must HATE Monks with a passion and Bards got hit in the kupos this expansion to mention a few)

[Leidolf]

Lack of Tanks...

Honestly, I think its just because people don't like being the one upfront. Sure, the lack of big numbers might bother some people, but I really think its the fact that everyone basically expects you to know what you're doing. At a base level, you die, they follow, everyone blames you. Especially in places like Aurum Vale.

It also doesn't help that as someone who prefers playing Caster-classes, none of the actual tanks scratch that itch for me.

[MerlinCross]

Actually all the tanks have situational 2 target dps gains which has been ultilised in both raid tiers so far as well as ultimate. For example on gnb their aoe is a dps gain at 2 targets with the exception of the gnashing combo over fated, so for example on titan you could gain extra damage from aoeing when gaols turned up or in eden prime you could stand in a specific spot and hit 2 orbs and eden prime on aoe. This tier you can get some aoe off before one becomes invincible on ifrit and garuda. Lots of optimisation space in that regards

Well for your Eden example that sounds like 3+ targets.

Otherwise I’d need to see some numbers on that as I haven’t really done much raiding but this is news to me. I’m not saying your wrong, but if it’s that clear of a DPS gain I thought I would have learned that by way of community Osmosis, given how number crunchy we are.

[Shurrikhan]

Combo systems exist because 1-1-1 gets tedious over a three to five hour stretch of relatively static, predictable gameplay. That's also the reason why PvP can afford to condense down so much button bloat.

Hitting 1-2-3 instead doesn't really make the gameplay any less static or predictable, though?...

[ReiMakoto]

Well for your Eden example that sounds like 3+ targets.

Otherwise I’d need to see some numbers on that as I haven’t really done much raiding but this is news to me. I’m not saying your wrong, but if it’s that clear of a DPS gain I thought I would have learned that by way of community Osmosis, given how number crunchy we are.

Well Im assuming its because its just common sense that 2 targets is a gain by basic addition. Again taking gnb as an example on 2 targets:
Burst Strike 500 potency vs Fated Circle 640 (320*2) potency: AOE Wins
1-2-3 ST Combo 900 pot+ 1 ammo VS 1-2-1 Aoe combo 1100 (150*4 + 250*2) pot + 1.5 ammo: AOE Wins
Gnashing Combo 2490 pot vs Fated+1 aoe combo 1440 + 1 ammo vs 3 target same 2160 pot + 1 Ammo: Gnashing wins in 2 targets and loses overall in 3 targets due to the extra ammo generation.

The same sort of basic addition can be done for the rest of the Tanks. WAR GNB and DRK all gain by using aoe combos over regular 1-2-3 at 2 targets, but have specific skills that do more than the aoe (such as fell cleave and bloodspiller). People should really take the time to just read their skills lol the numbers are right there.

As for the eden prime point, to elaborate further, you had to stand in a pretty precise spot to hit all 3, but it was fairly safe to go for cos if you missed the spot, you'd still hit 2 which was a gain anyway